Your Magic Is Killing Us

[Umbran]

Agreed, so let's try swapping things around. Instead of hosing the character (or worse, the party) for simply using a class's basic abilities, how about offering something extra, but at a risk.

Checkov's Gun. If you put the gun on stage in Act 1, you expect it to be used in act 2.

If you give the character a power, you (the player, the group, and the GM) will all expect that power to be used when the chips are down. There is no "something extra" in that sense.

Now, I run Deadlands - a game where use of magic does carry some risk. But it is generally risk only to the PC themselves, and generally won't kill or make the character unplayable. And, more importantly, the risk of casting a spell is largely balanced against the risk of using a gun. If you cast a spell, you may get backfire. If you draw a gun, you are asking, very loudly, to get shot at.

 

[gamerprinter]

So if you do this what are you giving the casters in return for this? What makes it worth playing a caster?

Not that I'm interested in altering magic, but if one is considering using a d20 as the first step of casting a spell with the possibility for a 5% spell failure (by rolling a 1), then there should be a 5% chance for a 'critical hit' that causes double damage, or double the effect.

The PF Magus class, that I'm running in our home game, because some of my spells are 'cast' through my sword, there is a chance to crit and get double spell damage. This is cool and the idea works, if you wanted to apply it to all spell casters.

Just a thought...

 

[Dausuul]

I think you're right. With a system like the one I outlined, you'd need a way for a mage to be able to "dump" Wyrd quickly and effectively, otherwise the rest of the party is sitting on their hands waiting for the mage to recover from overuse of magic.

A level mechanic would probably work well, though I find it a tad "artificial" for my personal tastes.

I'd prefer something like an expensive ritual that takes a day to cast (which isn't all that bad, but largely negates its use in the midst of an adventure). Alternately, maybe the mage can summon and bargain with an otherworldly power, exchanging 1 point of Wyrd for 2 points of "temporary" Obligation. (Temporary in the sense that, once the Obligation is fullfilled, the mage's relationship to that entity ends.

Nice idea! The obligation approach is one I hadn't thought of, but it's a great way to extend the "corruption" mechanic to divine casters, where you don't expect that overuse of your powers will turn you into a monstrosity or make you explode.

A similar way to handle it would be to put Wyrd reduction under direct DM control. Perhaps there's some kind of special consumable item, which can only be obtained through adventuring (not generally available for purchase, it's too rare and the market is too small) and gives you a one-time reduction. Or there's a remote and mystical location that can cleanse a wizard's Wyrd, but you have to physically go there and it's a dangerous and difficult journey.

 

[Croesus]

Checkov's Gun. If you put the gun on stage in Act 1, you expect it to be used in act 2.

If you give the character a power, you (the player, the group, and the GM) will all expect that power to be used when the chips are down. There is no "something extra" in that sense.

Not sure I can agree with this. While players can reasonably expect to be able to use their class abilities pretty much when they want (subject to story considerations), the game has a lot of other stuff that doesn't have to be automatic.

For example, a character may have literally dozens of potions. But if one used the old potion miscebility table, then players knew that using two potions at the same time had some risk. Most planned accordingly and avoided the situation. And if they did take the risk, it was generally because the character had no good options - in such a situation, would the character really rather have no option or an option with some risk?

Similarly, many GM's include magic items with some sort of drawback. While most of the old style cursed items were usually a real pain, items with interesting - but not necessarily lethal - quirks can be interesting.

I suppose it comes down to what the players assume they'll be able to do vs. the extra stuff (like magic items) that give them extra stuff to do. I wouldn't play a caster in a standard game of D&D if the GM made it risky to use any spell over 2nd level - I expect to be able to cast my spells. But as Stormonu mentioned, someone playing E6 assumes they can't cast 4th level+ spells, so giving them option to do so - even with some risk - is a bonus, just like finding a magic item.

 

[KiloGex]

I'd like all magic to be like that too. 5% of the time your spells just don't work - at all.

I actually use a dice roll system instead of the static DC. This way the caster has a bit more active combat and there is now that more random chance that the martial characters have.

 

[wolff96]

I think an interesting way to do this would be to take a modified spellpoint approach.

Perhaps a wizard can safely cast a number of spells per day equal to his level + his casting modifier. Once those points are gone, the wizard CAN continue to cast, but at a risk.

After that point, perhaps something like 1d6 per spell level in damage? Or perhaps ability damage equal to the level of the spell (Fort save for half). Ability damage coming from a random ability score could be interesting -- every time you push yourself hard, you take the damage from ONE of your character's physical or mental abilities...

That would take time to recover from without being ludicrous.

As a bonus, I would probably go with a more sorcerer-style caster for such a game -- you have access to all your spells. Use them at your own risk.

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For non-theorycraft answers, I'm a big fan of the WFRP system, as already mentioned. It's always fun to bust out those casting mishap charts. Especially when the non-sanctioned mage accidentally turns all the food and drink in the town rotten and draws attention to himself...

 

[Plane Sailing]

Have you ever contemplated a drawback system for D&D magic? Would you want such a system? Have you found or made up a system that works for your group?

I had a system which used failure and backfire for metamagic.

If you had a metamagic feat, anyone could apply it on the fly to any of their spells (wizard, sorcerer, whatever).

The metamagic feat didn't increase spell level though - it gave a failure chance, of 10% per '+' applied.

i.e.
Enlarge spell - 10% failure
Empower spell - 20% failure
Maximise spell - 30% failure
Quicken spell - 40% failure
Empowered, Maximised, Quickened spell - 90% failure.

If a spell failed, it was used up (spell gone/spell slot used up). AND you had to make a same % check - if you failed again, the spell backfired; a damaging spell or effect ended up hitting you. Divination would give wrong information, protection would make you vulnerable etc.

Cheers

 

[Plane Sailing]

I remember that there was an early d20 rules set that came out where the casting of spells generated a lot of internal heat in the casters - so they had to wear next to nothing or take heat damage. Most casters had over robes which they could quickly drop when they wanted to cast spells.

 

[Dausuul]

I remember that there was an early d20 rules set that came out where the casting of spells generated a lot of internal heat in the casters - so they had to wear next to nothing or take heat damage. Most casters had over robes which they could quickly drop when they wanted to cast spells.

Sounds less like a balance mechanic and more like an excuse for a lot of cheesecake interior art... though I suppose if you want to justify forbidding armor to wizards, that's one way to go about it.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I remember that there was an early d20 rules set that came out where the casting of spells generated a lot of internal heat in the casters - so they had to wear next to nothing or take heat damage. Most casters had over robes which they could quickly drop when they wanted to cast spells.

"Who is the skinny guy in the leather banana hammock?"

"One of the most powerful spellcasters in the world."

"Okaaaaay...who's that *ugh* naked fat chick behind him?"

"His mentor- RUN FOR IT!!!!"