Your opinion/experiences with some houserules

[Emka]

Inspired by this post;

Originally Posted by Highland Raider
Our group has, for a few years now, used the following rules for action points:
1) spend 1 action point to gain an extra action (per rules);
2) spend 1 action point to re-roll a botched roll (used for those dailies when you wind up rolling a 1, which happens far more often with our group than we care for);
3) spend 1 action point to recover a spent encounter power;
4) spend 2 action points to recover a spent daily.

I think that's it. We've found that this eliminates nearly all grind (though we have had a few encounters that wound up dragging out even with these adjustments--just fewer than we saw previously).

This sounds very interesting. We've been struggling with some streamlining issues in our group.
My players tend to sit on their action points like it's black gold - way too valuable to just give up. On the other hand, the wizard usually pushes for 15 minute workdays because everything lower than max (including surges) qualifies as "weakened" in his eyes. So they never stock up on Action Points either.

Your adjustments might be a cure for both problems.
Does this work well with the oft-proposed houserule of making an Action Point recharge after every battle instead of a milestone? I've been thinking of doing that for our group for the same reasons mentioned above.

Rambling a bit here but I've also read about this houserule where you could spend more than 1 AP per encounter. This would counter the 15min workday but could also cause the players never to spend any APs, saving them for the BBEG which might not even show up before their next extended rest.

The woes of a DM..

.. I have been wondering about some other common house rules to speed up play and spice things up a bit.

For instance, how do you feel about making Skill Checks a free action during (non-skillchallenge) encounters? This would probably encourage more heroic actions like flipping tables, tieing ropes, settings stuff on fire etc. yay or nay?

Another; weaponswitching. Free action, free action but only if you use it as part of your attack (essentially giving everybody the Quick Draw feat), minor to sheathe but free to draw? How about free for everyone but minor when switching from two weapons to one different weapon (e.g. two blades to longbow). Again, yay or nay?

What are your thoughts on these, and what others have you been using with great success?


[edit] right now I'm not using any houserules. It's also not like we're in a rut, but the RAW do have a tendancy to make combat encounters grindy and make players stall the gameflow with 15min workdays and such. I'm looking for some ideas to counter this. That and I'm curious as to how you guys play so many years after 4E's release.

 

[the Jester]

For instance, how do you feel about making Skill Checks a free action during (non-skillchallenge) encounters? This would probably encourage more heroic actions like flipping tables, tieing ropes, settings stuff on fire etc. yay or nay?

Another; weaponswitching. Free action, free action but only if you use it as part of your attack (essentially giving everybody the Quick Draw feat), minor to sheathe but free to draw? How about free for everyone but minor when switching from two weapons to one different weapon (e.g. two blades to longbow). Again, yay or nay?

What are your thoughts on these, and what others have you been using with great success?

Ehh, personally I don't like either of them. What I do is try to make flipping tables/taking tactical positions/etc worthwhile for the action they cost (usually a move or minor). If the pcs don't take such actions, sometimes their opponents will.

As far as weapon drawing/switching- I don't like that one either. I see no reason to encourage constant weapon-swapping; if someone wants to do that, they can invest a feat.

If you're looking to spice up combat, I suggest more interesting terrain- melting ice above freezing water; moving conveyer belts or waterborn elements that are being moved by the tides; swinging platforms; etc.

 

[D'karr]

Some of my game adjustments

Skill checks
During "combat" skill checks are graduated as such:
Standard Action: Easy DC
Move Action: Moderate DC
Minor Action: Hard DC

This lets players decide if it's important enough to do whatever they are trying to do, and assess the level of risk involved in doing it.

Milestones
Milestones are tied to actual in world milestones. For example, if they are in a combat to defeat the wizard's ritual when the wizard goes bloodied they might get an action point, or a recharge of an encounter power. When the ritual is defeated they might get an action point, or a surge equivalent in temp hit points.

When reinforcements show up (2nd or 3rd wave) the heroes might get a healing surge in temp hit points, or the equivalent of second wind.

There are as many ways to make this interesting as you want to make up.

Long term injury and wounds:
I've been using my own system to model these two things as part of the game. I use it sporadically but you can read the entirety of what I've come up with in this blog:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Do something cool:
My players have become masters of improvised actions because I reward that type of play and keep it in front of them. You can read all about that system here.

I've also experimented with quick rests. These are similar to second wind, but grant you back one encounter power. This allows me to keep throwing complications at my players without creating an overwhelming TPK.

Combats in my games are brutal and chaotic. I don't wait for players. If they are ready when I get to them in the initiative order they get a +2 to actions on their turn. If they are not ready I put them on delay and move on.

I use terrain constantly. From shoving a bookshelf, to throwing boxes/logs/etc., to spilling fiery braziers, to cutting ropes on nets, curtains, etc. My combats are punctuated by the amount of "off script" things that happen. Monsters run away, surrender when bloodied, go get reinforcements, sound the alarm, or fight viciously to the death. Monsters never, ever behave in a predictable manner.

When I'm running monsters they will usually trigger OA's and violate marks. This makes the game much more interesting for my players, and it reinforces the "cool" things about their character abilities.




-

 

[Emka]

Skill checks
During "combat" skill checks are graduated as such:
Standard Action: Easy DC
Move Action: Moderate DC
Minor Action: Hard DC

Ooh I like this one. My players are all new players and the more they've read the rules, the more they become restricted by the numbers. In the few occasions they have tried something cool™ they rolled terribly. Not their fault ofcourse but they did feel gypped spending a standard action.
They tend to weigh raw damage over alternative ways of winning encounters, even thought I have given then plenty oppertunities like hazardous terrain. 'tWas only two sessions ago where one would use bull rush to push a guard off a castle wall, killing him instantly.

Combats in my games are brutal and chaotic. I don't wait for players. If they are ready when I get to them in the initiative order they get a +2 to actions on their turn. If they are not ready I put them on delay and move on.

Quite. I have heard about the +2 on ready houserule before. My group of players are usually ready except for one. She has this idea that an action wasted is a step closer to death so she'll contemplate 5 mins wether or not she will use a minor; even when there's clearly nothing to minor. After a year of playing this is much to the chagrin of the other players, and are now at the point of telling her to hurry it up every single round. It doesn't seem to affect the situation in the slightest so I did warn her a few times that I will be skipping turns: "Apparently the Warlord is dazed on the battlefield".
While I understand the reasoning behind the +2, I think it would feel like I would potentially penalizing the other players in the rare event that they're not ready rather than teaching her to get her act together. I also expect her to simply live without the +2. Having her skip her turn would probably have more effect.

(edited first post for clarity)

 

[Mengu]

If you want people to spend actions on flipping tables, knocking over candelabras, etc. then you have to make those actions worthwhile. Using an action on a terrain feature should do something *better* than what a character can do with that same action at-will. Otherwise, they will simply get ignored. If they can hit an enemy on a 6 with an attack, but need a 12 to succeed at a skill, they won't do it. If they can do 30 damage and knock an enemy prone with an at-will, but pulling the rug from under them just knocks the enemy prone with no damage, they won't do it. The key is knowing what your PC's can do, and building enticing terrain options into an encounter. This is particularly important if it's going to be a standard action.

And not too sure about quick draw, it's an easy enough to get feat. If people want it, they can take it. If you want to give a bonus feat (or two, or three) to everyone, that's fine, just let them choose what they want. I find that particularly in heroic tier, this opens up some nice doors, and makes characters more interesting, and the feat taxes start to feel like less of a tax.

 

[Emka]

If you want people to spend actions on flipping tables, knocking over candelabras, etc. then you have to make those actions worthwhile. Using an action on a terrain feature should do something *better* than what a character can do with that same action at-will. Otherwise, they will simply get ignored.

Fair point. Would you tell the players what DC to hit beforehand though? Right now they don't even try once so they have no idea wether or not it would be better and/or easier than an at-will..

 

[Mengu]

Fair point. Would you tell the players what DC to hit beforehand though? Right now they don't even try once so they have no idea wether or not it would be better and/or easier than an at-will..

Yes, until they get used to it, it's best to make the mechanics of such terrain devices very transparent, just like another power on their character sheet. As a matter of fact, throwing a card on the table with the terrain power written on it is a good way to entice them.

Once they get used to the generous interpretation of "doing cool stuff", you probably will not have to be ready for every contingency, they will come up with their own creative ways of attacking or hindering enemies and all you will have to do is keep a handy cheat sheet of appropriate skill DC's, attack bonuses and damage bonuses for cool stuff, and fill in the blanks as you go.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

If you want people to spend actions on flipping tables, knocking over candelabras, etc. then you have to make those actions worthwhile.

Yes, until they get used to it, it's best to make the mechanics of such terrain devices very transparent, just like another power on their character sheet. As a matter of fact, throwing a card on the table with the terrain power written on it is a good way to entice them.

Once they get used to the generous interpretation of "doing cool stuff", you probably will not have to be ready for every contingency, they will come up with their own creative ways of attacking or hindering enemies and all you will have to do is keep a handy cheat sheet of appropriate skill DC's, attack bonuses and damage bonuses for cool stuff, and fill in the blanks as you go.

Excellent points in both posts. I would XP both of them if I could!

 

[Quickleaf]

.. I have been wondering about some other common house rules to speed up play and spice things up a bit.

I have a slew of monster tweaks I make as a DM, but it doesn't seem like those are the kind of thing you're looking for. I will say that the monster defense/initiative cards hung over the DM screen that Mike Shea suggests on his blog Sy Flourish are TOTALLY worth the extra prep. http://slyflourish.com/monster_knowledge_cards.html

In my friends 4e Keep on the Borderlands game, he uses a "style points" variant of action points. A description over here of what we (roughly) use: http://critical-hits.com/2008/08/04/mini-crunch-fun-with-dd-4e-action-points/

The terrain powers rules ("Tutorial: Terrain Powers" by Mark Monack) suggested the scaling DC to determine the action required for a skill use in combat. They're worth a read.

The weapon switching thing seems like a bad idea to me.

[edit] right now I'm not using any houserules. It's also not like we're in a rut, but the RAW do have a tendancy to make combat encounters grindy and make players stall the gameflow with 15min workdays and such. I'm looking for some ideas to counter this. That and I'm curious as to how you guys play so many years after 4E's release.

Ok I never had the 15 minute workday problem, but I ran 4e games for a group of 6, 7, or at one point 8 players! All my suggestions for speeding up combat mainly fall on the DM monster/encounter building side. IOW they are fairly invisible to the players. I can get into more depth on these techniques if you want. I'd say they improved combat time by 30%.

However, once I was dialed in with these tricks, I realized the main time sink was players deciding what to do. I think the slew of options available to 4e characters is overwhelming for lots of players, and optimizes often must keep track of every minor/free action. Essentials mitigate that somewhat, IME, but not enough.

OH! VERY IMPORTANT! Check out my cheat sheet, it's really really helpful for making your job as DM easier, hence speeding up the game: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-4th-edition-discussion/307923-d-d-4th-edition-dm-cheat-sheet.html