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<blockquote data-quote="el-remmen" data-source="post: 3754788" data-attributes="member: 11">You may be correct, and I am trying to keep an open mind, but at the same time I worked hard to make 3E into something I enjoy running playing and while I know that no &quot;out of box&quot; D&amp;D game is every going to satisfy me (or my long-term players), I do not look forward to doing all that work again.&nbsp; That's another thing - the stuff they talk about being a problem has never been a problem for me and my groups.&nbsp; We've never had the 5 minute adventuring day (except in extremely rare cases).&nbsp;&nbsp; No one complains about Vancian magic b/c we feel any magic system is as aribtrary as any other and I guess we're used to how it work and enjoy the challenge.They talk about 3 to 5 rounds per combat - but my games have 12 to 13 round combats on average (I did the math) - which means we have had 30 and 40 round combats that were a ton of fun.We haven't had alignment arguments since we were teenagers and no one who played a cleric ever worried about being the group healer or even the role in the group.&nbsp; We're playing adventuring &quot;people&quot;, we make do with what we got.I have never been a &quot;red-lining&quot; DM.&nbsp; If the party is making a 300 mile trek across the wilderness - stuff is happening in that trek because that is the fun &quot;see the world&quot; and sidetrek stuff.&nbsp; That is the fun &quot;holy crap! did we bring enough rations?&quot; stuff. . . I also don't enjoy chronic &quot;bad-assery&quot; - both for PCs and NPCs.Even with most of what was coming out for 3.xE I realized that I was not the target audience for it, and I basically know the same with 4E - I am just not looking forward to making it into something that *is* for me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="el-remmen, post: 3754788, member: 11"] You may be correct, and I am trying to keep an open mind, but at the same time I worked hard to make 3E into something I enjoy running playing and while I know that no "out of box" D&D game is every going to satisfy me (or my long-term players), I do not look forward to doing all that work again. That's another thing - the stuff they talk about being a problem has never been a problem for me and my groups. We've never had the 5 minute adventuring day (except in extremely rare cases). No one complains about Vancian magic b/c we feel any magic system is as aribtrary as any other and I guess we're used to how it work and enjoy the challenge. They talk about 3 to 5 rounds per combat - but my games have 12 to 13 round combats on average (I did the math) - which means we have had 30 and 40 round combats that were a ton of fun. We haven't had alignment arguments since we were teenagers and no one who played a cleric ever worried about being the group healer or even the role in the group. We're playing adventuring "people", we make do with what we got. I have never been a "red-lining" DM. If the party is making a 300 mile trek across the wilderness - stuff is happening in that trek because that is the fun "see the world" and sidetrek stuff. That is the fun "holy crap! did we bring enough rations?" stuff. . . I also don't enjoy chronic "bad-assery" - both for PCs and NPCs. Even with most of what was coming out for 3.xE I realized that I was not the target audience for it, and I basically know the same with 4E - I am just not looking forward to making it into something that *is* for me. [/QUOTE]

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