D&D 5E (2014) You've just TPK'd in the final fight. What do?

[doctorbadwolf]

I'd hold out for Keyleth, tbh.

I really don’t have any easy time with second hand embarrassment, so it really depends on when in the story of Vox Machina we’re talking.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I really don’t have any easy time with second hand embarrassment, so it really depends on when in the story of Vox Machina we’re talking.

Having lived my life, I find it to be a bit like ablative armor. The embarrassment I normally wander into will go to her.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Suppose your party TPK’d in the final fight. Would you reset and try again? Would you accept defeat? Or would you expect your GM to fudge the dice just enough to keep the BAD ENDING from ruining a good campaign? What's your philosophy of failure when it comes to the campaign finale?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

Laugh.

 

[d24454_modern]

I would jump up and cheer, crying out:

HA! I GOT YOU, I got you all SOOO good! You all thought your characters were invincible, huh? Right? Well, yeah, now you know. Now you see that they weren't such "hot stuff", huh? HA! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Then I would run around the gaming table, hollering and skipping in mirthful glee. Finally, exhausted from celebrating, I will fall back into my chair, let out a big sigh, and merrily ask the players, "So, everyone ready to return to 1st level? Let's roll up some new PCs!"

Would the other players murder you?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Would the other players murder you?

Why would they?

 

[payn]

Accept defeat, move on.

 

[jgsugden]

Suppose your party TPK’d in the final fight. Would you reset and try again? Would you accept defeat? Or would you expect your GM to fudge the dice just enough to keep the BAD ENDING from ruining a good campaign? What's your philosophy of failure when it comes to the campaign finale?...

Let's talk about the options you raise first:

Would you reset and try again? If this happens, it destroys the game part of a role playing game. If they get to try over and over until they succeed, then there is no game there - just a story the DM is telling with flourishes from the players. So long as the DM dictates what will happen in major events, the DM is really just playing with themself and is letting the players watch.

Would you accept defeat? You can really build off of this if the players are going to have another campaign following the first. They can experience the world created by the failure of the first party. One of my favorite campaigns, as a player, took place in a setting where my PC sold out the world. We had an artifact. It was essential for the bad guys not to get it. I was playing a PC that was was only in it for themself. The group trusted me with the artifact. A representative of the bad guys came to me and offered me a deal. I took it. The campaign ended that night, and we started a new one soon after that took place 5 years after the apocalypse created when the bad guys got the artifact. It was a fun scenario to explore and we really enjoyed that subsequent campaign ... but it was an anticlimactic end to the first campaign.

To that end, I don't think that a total failure is a perfect answer, either.

Or would you expect your GM to fudge the dice just enough to keep the BAD ENDING from ruining a good campaign?Unless your DM is a master trickster themself, this is almost always obvious and falls into the same problem as the first approach - the DM is dictating the game that is no fun.

So what have I done? You have to respect the way things played out, but you can't let it be a total failure. To that end, I set big end battles up with stages of victory. Even if they do not get the Big Win, the heroes get a chance to ensure lesser victories along the way so that they can celebrate something. As this is the end of a campaign, those lesser victories have to have meaning to the world in general.

In practice, PCs get opportunities to collect resources that make their ultimate adventure easier. If they get those resources, they get a chance to stride in like the hero at the end of the movie that has figures out how to beat the bad guy through more than just force. That doesn't mean that I have not seen campaign ending TPKs ... but they're rare.

 

[Rogerd1]

On Spacebattles, back in the day, we had BROB games, essentially Bored Random Omnipotent Being whether it was Q, or 5-D Imp, or Living Tribunal.

That kind of thing.

And one the key things is that they would capture your soul, and offer resurrection if you work for them. This would mean you could pick enhancements and equipment from fiction - relevant yo the game.

But from a purely DnD perspective this could mean players could be resurrected, with a few extra levels from another class of choice, and maybe equipment from other DnD settings.

They could then encounter the Big Bad later down the line, and hopefully kick the snot out of it.

 

[Helldritch]

It would pretty much be the end of the line. But even then, things might come up if the players took precautions. The group might be rescued by a friendly NPC party, could be resurrected by allies and so on. But it is usually the end.

 

[Baldurs_Underdark]

Firstly, I always find it very weird that the BBEG saves his best resources for the last. Strategically, it is often much smarter to deploy your resources earlier. So, in my games, the PCs will probably have some very big encounters first. When successful, they will eventually get to the BBEG who has already spent his resources. The BBEG fight will therefore not be the most dangerous, and a TPK at the BBEG is therefore just really unlikely.

In addition, the players in our group would be extremely unhappy with a TPK in the final fight. So, I would fudge the dice a bit if the players are unlucky with the dice. Death is extremely unlikely in the game anyway. The players have enough problems in real life. We just enjoy creating a story together. I know this is not everyone's cup of tea, but we like it.