Zero-sum game

[bert1000]

This thread was inspired by the XP and treasure distribution threads. They are an offshoot of a larger challenge I have had with D&D since 1e. How do you give the players a sense that an individual player is "doing well" or "doing poorly" in the game over the course of many sessions. This is complicated by the need to keep the game in balance, consistent, fun, etc. In some ways (I know I'm not using this perfectly correctly) the game is a zero-sum game: don't get treasure now, get it later; current level determines level of opponents; die and you make up a new PC.

You can create this sense of "doing well" within the story sometimes, because players can get a sense that they are getting closer to their goals or not, but has anyone complemented this with a game mechanic as well? XP is a poor mechanic for this in my opinion. Not dying is an ok way to measure "doing well" but not very granular.

 

[DEFCON 1]

To me and my players, "doing well" comes down to two things... are we having fun and do we get to do cool stuff? And if we have that, then we're "doing well".

This is a roleplaying game, not a board game. We have no need to "score points", or "try to win"... we just need to play out a story that allows us to do really interesting and neat stuff, and make ourselves feel cool while doing it. Then we'll have fun, and then the game is a success.

Which is why the DMG's "Always Say Yes" point is so important... because all that matters is allowing the players to think up and do cool stuff, and it's my job to assist that in any way possible. If I do my job and they do theirs, then we've "done well", because we all go home feeling as though our night wasn't wasted.

 

[Crothian]

Cool stuff does not equal doing well in my games. If the players are doing well then they are advancing the plot and solving the mystery or making progress toward's their own or groups goals. They know they have done well by their deeds.

 

[crash_beedo]

Sure- advancement is like th IT Hamster Wheel I find myself on once in a wheel (running to stand still with all the new software versions...) - you advance, get cool gear, but everything's tougher and you're still only 50% likely to hit...

One, I think it's valuable to have some roleplaying-focused recognitions... save the town, become a VIP! In my current game, one of the character's was made into a 'Court Lord' by the local ruler for many acts of heroism and bravery, the players love it.

Another thing is to throw some super easy fights once in a while... remember those kobolds that ambushed the PC's on the road and were so tough? Throw a similar fight at them at level 4 (ie, a level 1 encounter) and let the party whomp on them - it shows that just because they're level 4 now, they're not *always* going to have to deal with level 4 versions of the same old kobold encounter. My group really felt like they 'arrived' when they ran into the same type of local bullies that bedeviled them a few months ago and smacked them around like child's play.

 

[knightofround]

I dunno, I think there are some zero-sum elements to D&D. If the idea was just to have fun, then all the PCs might as well cheat on their die rolls and have all their hits be criticals. Or the PCs might as well be incredibly cheesy races, like Dragons or Dopplegangers. Or have level 30 equipment at level 1.

Part of what makes D&D fun is the shared group challenge. For alot of people, if the play is unbalanced (i.e. one person cheating on dice rolls when everyone else isn't) then it kinda sucks the fun out of it.

 

[Badwe]

It's true a good deal of it is illusory: merely creating a sense of sucess/failure when really it's just the numbers are bigger. You will find that little pockets emerge, particularly the farthest between a certain enhancement bonus and the next highest. The first player to get a +3 item when everything else is +2 is going to feel really special. If you put off handing out any other +3 items until later in the following parcel group it may further amplify that feeling.

Building off of what crash said for "easy" encounters, consider the following. 5 level 3 hobgoblins is 750xp (at 150 each), a level 3 encounter, it's just a small skirmish. at level 5, an encounter is 1000 XP, the same level 3 hobgoblins would number in 7 instead. Level 7 would count 10 of them, the party literally wading through the same opponents. By level 8, you would use the level 8 hobgoblin minion to further impress the idea that suddenly hobgoblins are lowly compared to the players. This contrast in numbers can help make the party feel like they're getting stronger, the contrast between how many hobgoblins they can fight at 3 vs at 7, and this can often be more satisfying than constantly fighting 5 of the appropriate level baddy.