Zombies You Can Chew On...
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Nyeshet
First Post
Personally, I don't think Sonic should even be considered an energy - even in such an overtly psuedo-realistic gaming environment such as D&D. The idea is that sonic 'energy' can break glass, crystal, etc if at the right frequency. I believe there are even (very) extreme instance in which metal can become weakened (ie: hp damaged) due to sound. And, of course, extreme sound can harm hearing, cause pain, etc. These seem to be the 'real world' reasons that Sonic was given an energy descriptor in the game.
However, I think it would be more accurate to make Sonic a sub-set of Force damage. It, too - through pressure - can harm, hearing, cause pain, etc. Basically the difference between Force damage (pressure) and Sonic damage (vibration) is rather minor. Force is constant in one direction, while sonic varies its direction with increasing frequency based on pitch. Thus the use of the term 'frequency' to denote this.
As with Force, there are very very few creatures 'immune' to it - or even resistant to it. So few, in fact, that most can be dropped or altered with little effort. Crystalline creatures are especially vulnerable to sonic damage - usually, but this can be implemented under sonic- as- an- implementation- of- force damage with little difficulty.
I note that there are spells with the Light sub-type, and yet we do not have a 'Radiant' damage to accompany Sonic damage. Yet intense light can blind, cause burns, pain (if shined into the eyes), etc. Just as creatures without ears are 'immune' to deafness - and often have some resistance to sonic (or their deafness is used as a reasoning for the said resistance), so too would creatures without eyes be 'immune' to blindness - and, I imagine, have some resistance or immunity to Radiant damage, if it existed. So why should sound have its own energy? At least Acid can be generalized as chemical damage, electricity is notably different from meer burning damage, and cold has similarly damaging. These four - acid, chill, electricity, and heat - can understandably be considered 'energies' in a way that sonic simply cannot.
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Getting back to the subject at hand, I too am curious about the undead's immunity to sonic. I think it was thrown in due to the fact that some PCs utilize sonic energy as a cure-all damage form - due to most creatures lacking any resistance or immunity to such. Perhaps this is particularly common in Green Slime's experience, and he had his own players in mind when he created the creatures. Thus he did what he felt necessary to make them more dangerous - and more 'scary' - to his players. This is entirely understandable.
Someone's comments on a menu selection, as per astral constructs, is a nice idea, but I wonder how it could be implemented as a template? Every few HD they gain a few more abilities and increased resistances? Or perhaps it would be a basic template based on HD with a menu of selections - the number chosen based on HD. That is somewhat different from Someone's astral construct idea, but it still has merit.
The idea of each undead having different immunities, resistance, etc is nice, as it weakens the effect of area based effects - such as fireball. Of course, it also increases the note keeping of the DM, but sometimes the implementations of good ideas require such. If a fireball drops a third of the crowd and notably but not seriously wounds another third - leaving the final third only mildly scortch - then it heightens the fear factor, as the PCs begin to realise that no single idea or solution is likely to work.
Also, consider the idea of the template not merely reducing Int to 3 and Cha to 1, but instead raising the undead with Int -8 and Cha -10 (min 1). Thus a few zombies might end up with as high an Int as 10 (initially 18). If a few of the undead become more cunning - perhaps hiding their cunning until the last moment - it makes the encounter more 'enjoyable' as the player's suddenly realize the encounter is more complex than they realized. A former Int 20 wizard - now an Int 12 zombie wizard - starting to throw about first and second level spells could also be interesting, although the sorcerer equivalent will also be interesting (as likely the wizard cannot prepare more spells after rising - presuming they can keep any of their prepared spells, of course).
Maybe, if made as a template, the zombies - desperate for something to chew - bit a few animals. Some of these advanced zombies in the form of dogs, cats, former familiars, horses, etc could also be interesting. Make the movement change from the template a -10 ft (min 5 ft) instead of a flat 20 ft movement, and suddenly barbarian and monk zombies become more interesting, especially if the monk undead is more than a level or two.
However, I think it would be more accurate to make Sonic a sub-set of Force damage. It, too - through pressure - can harm, hearing, cause pain, etc. Basically the difference between Force damage (pressure) and Sonic damage (vibration) is rather minor. Force is constant in one direction, while sonic varies its direction with increasing frequency based on pitch. Thus the use of the term 'frequency' to denote this.
As with Force, there are very very few creatures 'immune' to it - or even resistant to it. So few, in fact, that most can be dropped or altered with little effort. Crystalline creatures are especially vulnerable to sonic damage - usually, but this can be implemented under sonic- as- an- implementation- of- force damage with little difficulty.
I note that there are spells with the Light sub-type, and yet we do not have a 'Radiant' damage to accompany Sonic damage. Yet intense light can blind, cause burns, pain (if shined into the eyes), etc. Just as creatures without ears are 'immune' to deafness - and often have some resistance to sonic (or their deafness is used as a reasoning for the said resistance), so too would creatures without eyes be 'immune' to blindness - and, I imagine, have some resistance or immunity to Radiant damage, if it existed. So why should sound have its own energy? At least Acid can be generalized as chemical damage, electricity is notably different from meer burning damage, and cold has similarly damaging. These four - acid, chill, electricity, and heat - can understandably be considered 'energies' in a way that sonic simply cannot.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Getting back to the subject at hand, I too am curious about the undead's immunity to sonic. I think it was thrown in due to the fact that some PCs utilize sonic energy as a cure-all damage form - due to most creatures lacking any resistance or immunity to such. Perhaps this is particularly common in Green Slime's experience, and he had his own players in mind when he created the creatures. Thus he did what he felt necessary to make them more dangerous - and more 'scary' - to his players. This is entirely understandable.
Someone's comments on a menu selection, as per astral constructs, is a nice idea, but I wonder how it could be implemented as a template? Every few HD they gain a few more abilities and increased resistances? Or perhaps it would be a basic template based on HD with a menu of selections - the number chosen based on HD. That is somewhat different from Someone's astral construct idea, but it still has merit.
The idea of each undead having different immunities, resistance, etc is nice, as it weakens the effect of area based effects - such as fireball. Of course, it also increases the note keeping of the DM, but sometimes the implementations of good ideas require such. If a fireball drops a third of the crowd and notably but not seriously wounds another third - leaving the final third only mildly scortch - then it heightens the fear factor, as the PCs begin to realise that no single idea or solution is likely to work.
Also, consider the idea of the template not merely reducing Int to 3 and Cha to 1, but instead raising the undead with Int -8 and Cha -10 (min 1). Thus a few zombies might end up with as high an Int as 10 (initially 18). If a few of the undead become more cunning - perhaps hiding their cunning until the last moment - it makes the encounter more 'enjoyable' as the player's suddenly realize the encounter is more complex than they realized. A former Int 20 wizard - now an Int 12 zombie wizard - starting to throw about first and second level spells could also be interesting, although the sorcerer equivalent will also be interesting (as likely the wizard cannot prepare more spells after rising - presuming they can keep any of their prepared spells, of course).
Maybe, if made as a template, the zombies - desperate for something to chew - bit a few animals. Some of these advanced zombies in the form of dogs, cats, former familiars, horses, etc could also be interesting. Make the movement change from the template a -10 ft (min 5 ft) instead of a flat 20 ft movement, and suddenly barbarian and monk zombies become more interesting, especially if the monk undead is more than a level or two.
Someone
Adventurer
Nyeshet said:
My suggestion was more in the line of having more variation with zombies; if you´re going to run even a couple adventures with nothing more than zombies, they´ll become old quite quickly. The comment about constructs should be get too far; it may have some similarities, but nothing else. Simply, having a set of available special qualities/attacks, and combining them at the DM´s whim he can build zombies with a quite different feel, even when they have almost the same stats. This is independetly of having the monster as a template (which of course would add to the variety) or is a normal monster.
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