Paladin build help

Eb, I will spare those around to comment on all your points, most are seconded but some strike me as rather odd.
Where did you get the idea that greatsword & buckler can't be combined to make use of the Divine Shield feat?
The PHB defines the buckler as a shield, no official FAQ known to me contradicts this, WotC-boards "public view" supports this as well - I honestly don't see a reason. Maybe you could provide hard evidence supporting your view?

Apart from that, if you're in want for AC, a -1 to attack for an AC bonus of +3/+X doesn't sound so bad - it's a clear gain.

Further, where did you get the idea that Pious Templar casting could ever leave you superior to straight-class casting at very high levels? PrC's final spells are 2/2/2/1 compared to the full class' 3/3/3/3 - there ARE advantages in staying paladin after all, only your reasoning seems somewhat hard to follow. (With a Wis no greater than 19, you will have one more of each 1st & 2nd level, but will lose one of 3rd and two of 4th. Doesn't strike me as a deal. Or did you think of further PrCs?

PT has access to the full paladin spell list, however.

Only problem remaining is the favored weapon: greatsword.

VonRichthofen said:

Where did you get the idea that greatsword & buckler can't be combined to make use of the Divine Shield feat?
The PHB defines the buckler as a shield, no official FAQ known to me contradicts this, WotC-boards "public view" supports this as well - I honestly don't see a reason. Maybe you could provide hard evidence supporting your view?

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There is considerable doubt as to whether one can wield a greatsword and benefit from shield bonus to AC granted by a buckler - even with the Improved Buckler Defense feat. There is no argument when wielding two weapons, but the waters get muddied dealing with two-handed (and double) weapons. It has been debated several times before on these boards, without a very successful conclusion.

Legildur said:

It has been debated several times before on these boards, without a very successful conclusion.

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Interesting. I was doubtful myself and put up the question at the WotC boards maybe a tenday or two ago.
The question was something along the lines of:
"Since buckler has a slightly different set of rules, can it truely be considered a shield rules-wise? (for the purpose of Divine Shield/two-handed weapon)"

Commonly held assumption seemed to be: You can combine the three of them.
People cited the PHB, I re-read the relevant passage, a FAQ research didn't gainsay it - and it seems to be generally accepted in literally scores of builds (combining Divine Shield, Improved Buckler Defense & a two-handed weapon).

Now don't get me wrong, I will not say "that forum's collective mind is right, this ones' is not" - but there seem to be at least two different "schools" of reading the rules.

I personally think it shouldn't combine, for I am an old-fashioned supporter of sword'n'board and firmly believe that two-handed weapons are easily good enough without it.

VonRichthofen said:

I personally think it shouldn't combine, for I am an old-fashioned supporter of sword'n'board and firmly believe that two-handed weapons are easily good enough without it.

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Seconded. Same IMHO for the armor spikes & greatsword TWF combination.

Another example: I don't allow animated shields in my games... why should I allow buckler&greatsword combinations?

But by a literal reading of the rules it sounds as if it's allowed. Fine by me, I agree with the player who says that and give him the "You know that your DM likes stylish weapon choices!" look.

VonRichthofen said:

I personally think it shouldn't combine, for I am an old-fashioned supporter of sword'n'board and firmly believe that two-handed weapons are easily good enough without it.

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I agree with you. I can see how people can draw the conclusion that it is okay, but i don't 'feel' it is right. Otherwise, why would you EVER bother with TWF?

VonRichthofen said:

Eb, I will spare those around to comment on all your points, most are seconded but some strike me as rather odd.
Where did you get the idea that greatsword & buckler can't be combined to make use of the Divine Shield feat?

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Make that cannot be effectively combined without Improved Buckler Defense. Without Improved Buckler Defense, you lose the shield bonus when you use the arm to attack with your greatsword thus rendering Divine Shield a glorified Full Defense that isn't as good (for this character), doesn't apply to touch attacks, and costs you a feat.

The PHB defines the buckler as a shield, no official FAQ known to me contradicts this, WotC-boards "public view" supports this as well - I honestly don't see a reason. Maybe you could provide hard evidence supporting your view?

Apart from that, if you're in want for AC, a -1 to attack for an AC bonus of +3/+X doesn't sound so bad - it's a clear gain.

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But only if you have both divine shield AND improved buckler defense and spend a standard action to use divine shield in combat. If, like the character in question, you have one feat to improve your AC, Divine Shield is not a good deal.

Further, where did you get the idea that Pious Templar casting could ever leave you superior to straight-class casting at very high levels? PrC's final spells are 2/2/2/1 compared to the full class' 3/3/3/3 - there ARE advantages in staying paladin after all, only your reasoning seems somewhat hard to follow. (With a Wis no greater than 19, you will have one more of each 1st & 2nd level, but will lose one of 3rd and two of 4th. Doesn't strike me as a deal. Or did you think of further PrCs?

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In terms of Living Greyhawk, 15th level is high level. After that, the character retires. Now, IIRC, you could take Pious Templar as your 6th level if you wanted to which would put Pious Templar 10 at 15th level. And, Pious Templar casting 2/2/2/1 is better than a 15th level paladin with 2/1/1/1. And since the paladin only just barely gets 4th level spells at 14th level, I think the Pious Templar edges him out by a level or so (again, not consulting the books). For this character, I was wrong and Pious Templar would not edge out Paladin spellcasting at any level.

It's more likely that North Korea will give up its nukes and invite the US to monitor free elections after Kim Il Jong voluntarily assembles a jury of dissidents to try him for the artificial famines.

The alternate class features from the PHB II are a remote possibility for new characters. As for other ones--especially Dragon magazine ones that were not in Living Greyhawk Journal way back when that was a part of Dragon--a snowball has a better chance in hell.

Nightfall said:

Eb,

Do you think they'll allow him to take the Alternate class feature in Dragon 349 or not?

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Just an EN-noob's question, are political comments okay on these boards?

VonRichthofen said:

Just an EN-noob's question, are political comments okay on these boards?

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Don't think so... under Help there's the board rule section, I highlighted the political thingie.

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Thanx. I thought so. Alas, no elaborating on EB's North Korean topic.