Paladin build help

[Anthraxus]

I am just looking for some interesting ideas for my 8th level Paladin, what to take for his 9th level Feat, and maybe even what class/PrC to take next.

While there's nothing really "wrong" with him, I'm just wondering if there's maybe a way to take less damage. I seem to be a huge damage sponge. The party Mystic Theurge tends to run out of cleric spells for healing a lot.

Here's some details:
Race: Human(Suel)
Str 18
Dex 10
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 16
Deity: Pholtus(Glory, Good, Inquisition, Knowledge, Law, Purification, Sun; Favored weapon: Quarterstaff(ugh))
Feats: WF Greatsword, Power Attack, Improved Toughness, Extra Smiting
He also became "Dwarf Blooded" through an incident, which allows him to qualify for PrC, Feats, Etc... as if he were a Dwarf.

His AC is currently 20(Plate +1, Ring +1), but I can bump it up to 22 in the next couple levels by Gloves of Dex +2 and upgrading the armor to +2. Still pretty easy to hit.

What I'm wondering, if it's worth multiclassing into something with Charisma synergy like Bard or Sorcerer(and I most likely can't go back to Paladin, which I'd like to continue advancing at least the Smite power and/or Lay on Hands and spells(though he can't cast them very well with the 12 wisdom)), maybe take a cool Heritage feat or something similar for AC boost. The Shield spell would be nice to bump AC up to 24-26, except for that 35% ASF chance.

There's nothing really wrong with him now, I'd just like to have something a little different that works well with Paladin. Other than Core, usable books (with limitations)are Complete Warrior/Divine/Arcane/Adventurer, and some of the Races of the Wild/Stone/Destiny stuff.

I'm just looking for some ideas. Thanks,

-A

 

[green slime]

You have a very low AC for a tank at your level.

You could go for one of the Exotic Heavy Armours from Races of Stone, and/or Heavy Armour Optimization.

Divine Vigour is also handy. +10' speed and +1 hp/level for its duration.

 

[VonRichthofen]

At level 9, even your mediocre Wisdom should qualify for a 2nd level spell - Angelskin for DR 5/evil might be a choice, though lasting only 4 rounds for you.

Feats-wise, I allways recommend Practiced Spellcaster to get you an acceptable caster level - but with Wis 12, that's maybe not exactly a great idea.

I'd probably strap on a mithral buckler & take the Divine Shield feat - for a net gain of +1/+4 AC and great potential in the future. Improved Buckler Defense might be next on your wish list.

Divine Vigor is great as well, since it allows for 2 temporary hitpoints/level (they are indeed temporary, they go away first, unlike a barbarian's rage bonus hp) and a 10ft. speed increase.

Since you have 6 turn undead attempts at the moment, this can add up to 108 bonus hp/day you can absorb at level 9.

If you're married to your special mount, stay vanilla paladin.

If you aren't, ask whether you can get the "Charging Smite" alternative class feature and look for some nice PrC - a level of cleric and then Gray Guard, perhaps? THat's CS, though...(Moral flexibility, two good saves, touch attacks, 1/2 cleric casting (or pally, but meh...) - not overly strong, but not that bad either.)

Otherwise, Pious Templar might float your boat - acceptable divine spellcasting, smite, DR, mettle, weapon specialization (and the road to mastery!) as well as two good saves make up for your pansy skill list.

EDIT: just saw your deity favors the quarterstaff - wack! Ditch Pious Templar then, or get yourself converted to someone who likes a decent greatsword.

 

[hanniball]

A few random suggestions:

Take another Paladin level for the boost to Ref/Will saves, get 5 ranks in Diplomacy and Know (Religion) and grab the Servant of the Heavens feat. At your next level take the Fist of Raziel Prc. It'll increase your dismal Paldin casting and provide some excellent smiting options.

Take two fighter levels and grab Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge and Ride-by-Attack. At 12th level jump into the Cavalier Prc and charging-smite the crap out of the opposition.

There's nothing wrong with a Paladin 10/Pious Templar 10. Hmm, trying to combine PT and FoR might be interesting...Pal 9/PT 4/FoR 7.

Either way...just my 2 cp

 

[VonRichthofen]

A few random suggestions:

Take another Paladin level for the boost to Ref/Will saves, get 5 ranks in Diplomacy and Know (Religion) and grab the Servant of the Heavens feat. At your next level take the Fist of Raziel Prc. It'll increase your dismal Paldin casting and provide some excellent smiting options.

Take two fighter levels and grab Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge and Ride-by-Attack. At 12th level jump into the Cavalier Prc and charging-smite the crap out of the opposition.

There's nothing wrong with a Paladin 10/Pious Templar 10. Hmm, trying to combine PT and FoR might be interesting...Pal 9/PT 4/FoR 7.

Either way...just my 2 cp

Please observe the books allowed. Exalted Deeds was not on the list.

Apart from that, who would waste FoR caster levels with pansy 1/2 progression casting? A level of cleric is mandatory (actually 2+, to net you at least level 6 cleric spells).

 

[hanniball]

Please observe the books allowed. Exalted Deeds was not on the list.

Apart from that, who would waste FoR caster levels with pansy 1/2 progression casting? A level of cleric is mandatory (actually 2+, to net you at least level 6 cleric spells).

My bad, I was browsing multiple threads simultaneously.

I would have suggested some Cleric levels were it not for his 12 wisdom.

 

[szilard]

If Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana) is an option, that might not be bad. Low-level buffing spells (Shield, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Blur, Mirror Image, Spider Climb, etc.) can be remarkably effective.

-Stuart

 

[Anthraxus]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I had considered Divine Vigor, and all the temporary hit points that it would entail (and the speed boost is a definite plus)- it's probably my "top" feat choice for 9th.

At 8th level, theoretically, I should have 2nd level spells, but not until I get a +2 periapt. I'm guessing I never will be good at spells. I could forget about 2nd level spells and get an amulet of Nat. armor instead, or I could get the periapt and negate a lot of damage(I *do* have access to Angelskin).

I like the buckler/Divine Shield idea, but I don't know if I like the -1 to attacks.

Not married to my special mount. It's more of a tool to get me places, oh- and get an initial charge with the lance. I'm mostly an "on foot" Paladin. I'll have to see if Charging Smite is allowed in the near future.

I don't know if Practiced spellcaster is worth it. The bonuses on stuff like Divine Favor would be nice, and the extra duration, but I'll only have probably 2-5 spells, ever.

Maybe I should just go fighter after this for the bonus feats. The Improved Crit(greatsword)/Bless Weapon/Power Attack/Smite combo would be nice.

Keep the ideas coming. Thanks!

 

[VonRichthofen]

Concerning buckler: As long as it is non-magical, it is not that great a trade-off. (1:1)

But as soon as you can get enchanted baubles, it begins to pay off.

A +5 armor will cost you the same as a +4 armor and a +3 buckler (sparing the cost for a masterwork buckler, but gah...)

Your net gain will then be +3 to AC for a -1 to hit - to me, this sounds about right.

And you can easily add 4-6 extra points of AC with Divine Shield at high levels.

I don't think Battle Sorcerer is a great idea, you'll take a hit on your BAB, you'd have to ditch medium/heavy armor for the time being (or invest in yet another feat, Battlecaster & go for mithral plate), and your caster level will stink.

Even 4 levels of Battle Scorcerer will net you two 1st level spells and one 2nd level spell known - oh well.

And all your level-dependend pally abilities will suffer.

I'd rather aim for Paladin 10/Templar 10, if you can somehow convinvce your DM that a greatsword is an appropriate weapon to defend the cause of your god.

Feats of choice would be Divine Shield, Divine Favor, Improved Buckler Defense & Melee Weapon Mastery (slashing)

You'd be in for 8 smites/day at level 20 (for +60 damage each with Charging Smite!), your Will save would be about okay (base +10 + Wis bonus + divine grace + magic), you'd be in for a +3 to hit/+4 to damage with your greatsword, DR 2/-, Mettle, and, providing you can get your Wis to 14, you'd have pally spells 2/2 (CL 5) and 3/3/2/1 (CL 10) - not huge, but still very nice.

IF you keep using the pre-erratum Divine Favor variant, you might also ditch Improved Buckler Defense & Divine Shield for Practiced Spellcaster & Improved Critical, for a more offensive bend - Your PT casting would end up CL 14 - not too shabby if you have spells like Divine Favor, Divine Sacrifice, Rhino's Rush (1st); Eagle's Splendor, Strength of Stone (2nd); Find the Gap, Righteous Fury (3rd); or Draconic Might & Holy Sword (4th).
(Some of them might not be in the books you are allowed, but you get the idea.)

 

[Krafen]

Since you have Dwarf blood, consider Deepwarden (RoS). Con to AC is really nice and as a bonus you get a boost to your Will saves. Your DM will probably (rightly IMO) rule that your Con bonus to AC can not exceed the max Dex of your armor, but it is still a nice benefit. You can pretty much write off Dex for your character.