Sidereal Ascension methods

Method 9: Birth

This is the non-method Method, and it's also by far the easiest to accomplish- if you're eligible to accomplish it at all. The only beings which can undertake it are those who are actual children of existing Sidereals. Those who have this special status can simply get to DR (whatever), and gain enough QP and HD to cross over to the next divine-tier status. For these entities, there is no divide between "deity" and "Sidereal."

Examples of such beings would be the class of creatures UK called Entities, for the purposes of the Epic Bestiary; essentially, the Cosmic-tier equivalent of Abominations. It was suggested of the book Elder Evils, that Atropus and the true form of Leviathan might constitute such Entities, as might the final integrated form of Pandorym.

But under normal circumstances, this method will be available to NPCs only; no PCs will likely be of the special "bloodline" to accomplish this.

Omeganian said:

Overseeing a galaxy full of different species to evolve into a single advanced and peaceful society? There is a novel where galaxy sized radiation composed creatures took such duty upon themselves.

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Thanks for the reply! This one looks similar to Progenitor, to me, though there are differences. Perhaps it's more like a combination of Progenitor and the Worship Method. But either way, I agree that this one could work, provided the galaxy is sufficiently large enough and contains a diverse enough mix of races when you start. Something like the Dragon Empire of the Dragonstar setting would work nicely for this, I think.

The novel is called "Macroscope". By Piers Anthony.

Great thread paradox42!

I was of course familiar with the BECMI path to sidereality (albeit via WotI). However, I'm not sure how such an approach is within a group dynamic unless everyone undertakes it at the same time. That said, its still very interesting postulation.

Possible alternatives (off the top of my head) could be:

Existence: (Temporal based) you simply have to exist for a very long time (1 million years+). Will your mind shatter under the weight of time...?

Mergence: (Matter based) you become one with an existing sidereal, perhaps piece by piece (specifically thinking of Corum). Can you find the next piece(s) and complete the sidereal puzzle...?

Transposition: (Spirit based) you become a sidereal only to find yourself imprisoned in an alternate reality/realities, only existing in others dreams (back in your reality). Can you engineer your own freedom and will you recognise your own reality if and when you get back*...? Also what weird and wondrous sights exist in these alternate realities...will you even want to return home?

*Time could pass differently in other realities.

Exigency: (Entropy based) you become a sidereal but your power is fleeting and such temporary boosts can only be maintained by devouring [insert food type*]. Worse yet, you grow steadily weaker when you do not feed.

*Blood of Immortals, Planets, Undead, Artifacts, Time etc.

Symbiotic: (Thought based) you gain control over a sidereal rather than becoming one yourself. The more you use the sidereal, the weaker your own form becomes. The less you use the sidereal the more your control over it slips from your grasp. Do you bid farewell to your old form and embrace the new...?

No Man is an Island...but a God...: (Interdimensionally based) you become a sidereal, but realise that you only hold such power on that single plane. When you travel to other planes the power is lost. Your wounds act as Resonance wellsprings on other planes, you can influence matters on other planes through those tapping your power.

Alternates

Bringing it back to the ideas of the Portfolios (as Dimensions) is a good notion, certainly- particularly if your game features the possibility that other First Ones (and thus dimensions) besides the six, might come into being. Logically, any such being would need to undergo a process of creating the new dimension somehow.

I also suggested to the players a few alternate processes besides the nine "official" Methods that work for gods; as I noted in the first post, there should in theory be beings who achieve Sidereal-esque power without being "Immortals" in the manner of deities.

Undead are the obvious counterpoint: even though we don't have any Sidereal-level Undead (yet) to look at, the clear implication of the existence of the Akalich (which is effectively an Undead god) is that such beings can/must exist at least as possibilities. One player actually has an Undead PC on account of taking the appropriate Divine abilities and being a Death god; that player naturally inquired after further modes of evolution for his character. I suggested that each major Undead type would have its own means of becoming a planar "soul" (for lack of a better term to use) and thus Sidereal, but only came up with three examples myself (to be honest I was getting rather tired of thinking them up by that time).

An Akalich must be over 1 million years old, and must research a method to destroy its own Soul Gems and Phylacteries to remove its one remaining weakness (from the perspective of maintaining immortality). The being then effectively eats its own soul gems and phylacteries, in the demiplane which is to become the new seat of its consciousness, and crosses the divide to become Sidereal. I actually said that this had been done once before, in my cosmos, by a being whose name (as an Akalich) was Ghautanathoa but who now exists as a dim little demiplane called simply "the Dead Zone." I have no planar statistics or characteristics for this Dead Zone, and Ghautanathoa is a name from the Cthulhu Mythos; I just "borrowed" a couple of likely-sounding concepts/names and used them. So far the PCs haven't shown any interest in traveling there to say hi, so good.

A vampire, I suggested, must advance through the years and vampiric templates to what is known as a Methuselah or Nosferatu status (this based on the long-held notion among us fans of the IH that the Nosferatu template will be the Vampire equivalent of an Akalich); the being must then exist in that state for no less than 10,000 years. After that time, the being must successfully drain the blood from every mortal or vampiric inhabitant of its current plane, and then go into a torpid slumber for another 10,000 years. After the slumber of millennia is finished, the being awakens with a new hunger, and must again drain the blood from every living or vampiric inhabitant of the plane, and then and only then does its soul merge with the blood-dry ground and become a vampiric plane Sidereal. I said that two beings in the history of my cosmos had tried to do this, but both were killed during the 10,000-year slumber by others seeking the mantle of Nosferatu. I'll also mention that my intent here, since I borrowed the term "Methuselah" from White Wolf's Vampire: the Masquerade, was that a vampiric Sidereal would probably resemble the beings called (in that game) Antediluvians- particularly as they are portrayed in the final Gehenna book.

I suggested that a Death Knight is similar to a lich in many respects, and their method of ascending to the Sidereal is similar but involves long existence at a state called the Welkin. Since I've never actually seen a full explanation of what a Welkin is or does, I had no further details to give here, but clearly since the lich and vampire have to evolve from their god-level templates, so too must the Death Knight.

There is one final class of being, not Undead as such, that exists in my cosmos and which has a unique method of Sidereal apotheosis. Since I've stated for my cosmos that deities are entities which exist fundamentally as pure energy, and I've also equated quintessence to life-force or positive energy, it logically follows that deities are souls so charged with positive energy that they don't even need bodies to "live" and interact with Reality. Yes, even Undead deities (if they are actual deities and not just super-Undead like Akaliches) are charged with positive energy- keep in mind the "Deathless" idea from Book of Exalted Deeds and the fact that Mummies were in earlier editions supposed to be powered by positive energy rather than negative. But positive energy has its opposite number, and it is possible for souls to become so charged with negative energy that they become embodied in it. Such beings are called Antigods, and they have specific effects when they encounter and interact with regular deities. Much as antimatter is exceedingly rare in our real universe, I've postulated that Antigods are exceedingly rare in my game cosmos; however, they do exist.

Antigods have a specific method for ascension to Sidereal that isn't one of the nine- in fact it replaces the Worship Method for them. An Antigod can become Sidereal by killing itself in such a manner that it takes an entire plane along with it. The Antigod doing the Plane-Destruction thing has to be the only divine being on the plane in question when he blows it all up, otherwise it doesn't work. The detritus of the plane, as it dissolves away into nothingness, is pulled along with the Antigod's soul and essentially merges with it- arresting the slide into entropy. The Antigod then awakens anew as a Sidereal ruling a new plane.

paradox42 said:

A vampire, I suggested, must advance through the years and vampiric templates to what is known as a Methuselah or Nosferatu status (this based on the long-held notion among us fans of the IH that the Nosferatu template will be the Vampire equivalent of an Akalich).

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Well the Nosferatu was always meant to be the Vampiric equal to the Demilich, the Welkin would have been the vampiric equivalent of the Akalich.

In 4E that has all been turned on its head, to a degree at least (there are a range of Nosferatu both above and below the power of the 4E Demilich) and I really don't think templates have the same significance in 4E.

Apologies for never getting around to the Umbrals during my 3E stint, they are very cool enemies. Hopefully I'll get to them in 4E (they are part of the plan*) and then get them converted.

*Though its a big plan.

I would say creating a new planar layer or less important plane (Ascension says minor planes like the paraelemental planes are Elder Ones, not Old Ones) would do it. The plane would then grow with you, becoming a full blown plane at Old One and an entire dimension at First One.

In my world I'd let creating a "world" (planet or other celestial body) do it too, actually, since I have the planets and sun as Sidereals, either dormant or awake (the main world is a "dead" former First One; the sun is an awake Old One; the equivalent of Planet X/Nemesis is a dormant Old One; etc.)

Khisanth the Ancient said:

I would say creating a new planar layer or less important plane (Ascension says minor planes like the paraelemental planes are Elder Ones, not Old Ones) would do it. The plane would then grow with you, becoming a full blown plane at Old One and an entire dimension at First One.

In my world I'd let creating a "world" (planet or other celestial body) do it too, actually, since I have the planets and sun as Sidereals, either dormant or awake (the main world is a "dead" former First One; the sun is an awake Old One; the equivalent of Planet X/Nemesis is a dormant Old One; etc.)

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How do you square this idea with the existence of the Genesis spell/psionic power? The 9th-level one that creates a demiplane? Is there an Epic version of it that can create a true plane, and if so, what's the DC?

I didn't feel this alone was an appropriate measure, that's why I didn't list it in the methods above.