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Doors: Too hard to break, too easy to chop

Grog

First Post
Is it just me, or are the rules for breaking and chopping down doors a little screwed up? Let's look at breaking down a door first. According to the DMG, a strong wooden door has a break DC of 23 if stuck and 25 if locked. Now, since breaking a door down is a simple strength check, any character except for a very high level fighter type is going to have a very tough time making that DC 25 check. Someone with a 20 or 22 strength would only have a 5 or 10% chance of being able to break the door down. A human with the maximum possible natural strength (18) would have literally no chance to break that door down. That just seems to be too difficult for a wooden door.

But then, look at how easy it is to chop that same door down. It has hardness 5 and 20 hit points. Someone with a two-handed weapon could chop through the door in 2 or 3 hits. So this door, which is so strong it cannot be broken down by any ordinary human, can be chopped through in about 15 seconds by one person with an axe.

Does anyone else see this as a problem? And if so, do you think break DCs need to come down, or do door hardnesses and hit points need to go up?
 

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StalkingBlue

First Post
I hate to point you to real life, but have you ever tried to bash in a real wooden door? Not the light-weight frame things you usually get in modern buildings, but medieval-style massive wood?

I've seen firefighters break down doors. They don't step back and kick. They fetch their axes from the truck and go to work - and I can tell you, a door that lasts 15 seconds under their blows is a damn solid door.

So actually, no problem. The door rules are pretty plausible. Most RL people wouldn't stand a chance of breaking through a door without a proper tool. And in game, doors are there for a reason.
 

Grog

First Post
So actually, no problem. The door rules are pretty plausible. Most RL people wouldn't stand a chance of breaking through a door without a proper tool. And in game, doors are there for a reason.

True, but there's a big difference between a door most RL people couldn't break down, and a door that a human with the highest strength possible couldn't break down.

And if we're talking about medieval-style massive wood doors, I don't think it'd be possible to chop one down in 2 or 3 swings with an axe or sword.
 

DMFTodd

DM's Familiar
The Door Break DCs are too high. It doesn't matter what real-life fireman do, this is fantasy gaming. In fantasy gaming the big strong hero needs to break down a door on occasion to rescue the princess.
 

Crothian

First Post
Well, it's also assumed that the fantasy hero has a 26 or higher strength becasue it's really easy to increase attributes.
 

Grog

First Post
26 strength? Even in the unlikely event the character starts with an 18, you're still probably talking about at least a 12th level character or so before they can get to 26. So for a very significant portion of their adventuring life, even the strongest characters will be unable to break wooden doors.

Now, maybe the designers meant for wooden doors to be significant obstacles - but if so, why make them so easy to chop down? It just doesn't make sense.
 

Crothian

First Post
Doors are only chal;enging to low level characters anyway, I think that's the point. And they are easy to knock down with strength as you can have people help and take as long as you want. Doors are delaying devices and nothing more.
 

But then, look at how easy it is to chop that same door down. It has hardness 5 and 20 hit points. Someone with a two-handed weapon could chop through the door in 2 or 3 hits.

I could do it in one round - Power Attack :D

Couldn't you count a bash against a door as an attack instead of Strength check - a monk would be really good at pulling this off.
 

pvandyck

First Post
Not sure what the big deal is. You can re-try as many times as you want. Our low-level party of 4th level characters recently bashed down a door without it being a big deal. The half-orc who did it had a bull's strength on him at the time, but still, you can re-try as many times as you like. I think I like where the difficulty is. It should be unlikely to knock down a door easily, first try.
 


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