basic differences in rules per edition

I'm pondering this, to identify some parameters of the "4e" disuputes.

I'm curious to see a summarized list of the changes from each edition (presuming 1e's AD&D hard-cover books as the baseline, which I know isn't quite precise).

In 2e:

• stripped out Armor vs. Weapon (made it an optional rule Armor vs. Weapon Type)
  converted the attack math to THAC0 (though to my eye, it resulted in the same thing)
  Added a "Skills" system
  Introduced Specialty Priests
  Introduced wizard school specialization (1e only had Illusionists)
  thief abilities are point-buy (players choice)
  1 minute round (was 10 seconds or some such)

I'm too lazy to confirm this, but UnearthedAracana and Wilderness Survival Guide had some influence on what 2e brougt it.
Also, it appears to be more of a re-write to remove Gary than a change of the rules.


in 2.5e (Skills & Powers)

• added sub-ability scores
• added class feature customization

S&P made it easier to "power-game" which seems to be the big complaint.

in 3e:

• overhauled the skills system
• flipped the math formulas so that rolling high=good, otherwise %odds were the same (Peter Adkison even suggested this idea in a Dragon Mag editorial long before 3e was announced.
• monster stats were mostly formulaic, following a comparable process to making NPCs (which followed the PC rules).
• buffs became prevalent
• got rid of wizard school specialization mostly
• replaced specialty priests with Domains concept
• Attacks of Opportunity
• 10 second round

Previously, monster stats were formulated, and were much shorter. Heck, we used 1e's MM for quite a time in 2e.
Added Feats, which extend the extra abilities the PC has, usually class related
Spontaneous casting via Sorceror or healing for clerics

in 3.5e

• standardized monster sizes to be square, presumably
• adjusted durations of some spells (buffs mostly) to make them only useful during 1 combat

in 4e:

• remade all classes to have equivalent effecitveness in combat. Such that for the most part, they all could do the same amount of damage & a special effect
• removed all classes that weren't combat focussed (bard)
• designed each class to have a specific role (defender, striker)
• concept of "Marking" an opponent for a bonus (akin to 3e's Dodge feat but expanded)
• changed magic usage dramatically (too wordy to explain, and I don't know all the details)
• re-simplified monster and NPC stats to NOT follow same rules and PCs
• Shortened up the skill list by consolidating things
• made healing and HP refreshing more abundant

Without getting into quibbling details (which mgiht be a matter of my opinion), is there any other concepts I missed?

Personally, I feel like 4e made more dramatic changes. I started in 2e, but have 1e books. I've never read 4e. One could nitpick specific spell differences between 1e-3e, but that's quibbling. For the most part, Fireball and Magic Missle work the same in all those editions. And combat has mostly been the same (attack value modified by die roll vs. AC)

Each of these changes may have felt dramatic to somebody used to the old system.

Once I couldn't fathom why some guy I met was bemoaning that D&D3e had a skill system when his fondly remembered 1e didn't "need it" To my eye, it was a matter of every other ruleset had a skill system and it made sense. A recent post somewhere on enworld pointed out a good reason against. It was expressed that in 1e, it was assumed you could ride the horse or light the campfire, and at worst, in a challenging moment, the GM might make you roll for it. Once the skills came in, suddenly, if your sheet didn't say fire building, you couldn't do it, because that would invalidate that I spent my skill slot on fire building and you didn't.

Perhaps this 4e argument is of the same bent.

It's kick-the-ball vs. rock-paper-scissors. 2e's skill system is Rock-paper-scissors. and back in the day, we could just kick the ball. But now that you added this RPS thing, I can't just kick the ball. 4e added these class roles, a new form of RPS (Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock?). It s a new mechanic, not wholly needed for the old way of playing, but introduces its own play and balance element.

2e
-- rounds didn't change time duration -- both 1e and 2e had 1 minute rounds
-- spell damage received caps to dice
-- added bards as base class; dropped assassin
-- dropped half-orcs
-- raised demi-human level limits


3e
-- replaced saving throw system with the trinity (Fort, Will, Reflex)
-- flattened curve for attribute bonuses
-- substantially removed item damage (failing a save vs fireball didn't require all exposed items to check, for example)
-- added semi-customisable leveling choices (feats and similar chosen class abilities)
-- revamped multiclassing
-- added prestige classes
-- huge hit point inflation by mid levels
-- converted weapon immunities into damage reduction
-- returned half-orc
-- removed demi-human level limits
-- made xp progression the same for all classes
-- converted to a linear #encounter per level gain paradigm
-- dropped system shock / resurrection survival and maximum number of raises per character? (I think this still existed in 2e)


3.5e
-- replaced damage reduction system
-- tweaked spells to be less general in use (splitting some into several spells, removing variability, shortening durations)

3E:

• Experience points adjusted by PC level (lower-level characters earn more XP from the same encounter than higher-level ones).
• Prestige classes.
• Scaling difficulties on saving throws.
• Ability score caps removed (previously 25 was absolute maximum).
• Clear and specific rules for magic item creation.
• Greatly expanded access to stat-boosting magic items, and 2E's "there are no magic item shops" replaced with the expectation that PCs will be able to buy and sell items freely, resulting in the "Christmas tree effect."
• Class limits for nonhuman characters removed. Dwarves can now be wizards.

4E:

• Applied the same mechanical framework (at-will, encounter, daily, utility) to all classes. Essentials has moved away from this, however.
• Experience points back to not being adjusted by PC level.
• Eliminated skill points, replaced with skill training. (Seemingly a minor change, but a major sticking point for some folks.)
• Made powers and abilities self-contained and rigidly defined. Instead of open-ended effects like charm person that rely on DM interpretation, all powers state their precise effects in unambiguous terms.
• Fort/Ref/Will saves replaced with attacks versus Fort/Ref/Will defenses. Functionally the same, but now the attacker rolls instead of the defender. Saving throws redefined... again.
• "X rounds" durations replaced with "save ends" and "sustain" effects.
• Introduced the idea of "short rests" to partially recharge between encounters.
• Removed stat-boosting items and effects.

(Also, they didn't get rid of wizard school specialization in 3E. In fact it looks pretty much the same in 3E as it did in 2E.)

Between 2e and 3e came Alternity, which pre-tested (if you will) some of the changes, such as skills being more clearly defined and different ability scores actually making a difference.

• 3.x introduced Challenge Rating and a set (if poorly-defined) idea of "expend this many resource per encounter".
• A unified toolset. No more five saving throws to keep track of over 20 levels. Memorizing rules became easier (at least before the flood of splat arrived).
• Buffs became more important. In 3.x they got nerfed.
• Clerics got spontaneous casting. (A huge deal; no more prepping healing spells.)
• Action types (eg standard, move, free...)
• Attack of opportunity
• Spellcasting significantly changed. No more spell casting times. Avoiding losing concentration was easy (indeed, Concentration became a skill for this very reason) but the addition of readied actions still makes spellcasting risky. (It's just nobody likes to use it.)
• Spellcasters benefited from save DCs, meaning "save-or-suffer" spellcasters didn't suck anymore. Indeed, they probably ended up being overpowered.
• Six second rounds
• Codified magic items. They became required and sort of boring too.
• Added feats, which started out amazing. However, the class that made feats a big deal, the fighter, never got good feats.
• Got rid of class/level restrictions. While I'm not a fan of dwarf wizards, I don't think level limits had any place in any DnD system.
• Still kept a few clunkers, like turn undead, which actually became worse because it did not scale with "monster type" but just level.
• Introduced the "Big Six" magic items.
• Between more important ability scores and Con-boosting items, hit points increased. In addition, an effort was made to give 1st-level characters more hit points.
• Unified XP progression.
• Greater class differences. I never really saw the difference between a paladin and a fighter in 2e, except one had to have high Charisma, got +2 to saves and lay on hands but couldn't specialize. (3.x had Smite Evil, the paladin's unique class feature, and also gave you a reason to want a high Charisma.)

In 4e

• Healing became even less of a strain on healing PCs. You no longer had to give up actions to heal a wounded comrade (well, nothing more than a minor action).
• Made a serious attempt to balance all classes. All classes are useful in combat (even classes that weren't before, like the bard or monk) and there's no more linear fighters/quadratic wizards.
• Powers are so cool, especially fighter powers. (Fighter feats in 3.x should have had those.)
• Introduced healing surges, which finally makes measuring the number of encounters per day/resource loss easy. It also means you can't infini-heal if you have a Wand of Healing Words (which doesn't even exist in 4e).
• 1st-level characters are far more powerful than they've ever been (of course, so are 1st-level opponents). They get more hit points and no longer die in one hit. Wizards and other spellcasters get minor at-will spells.
• Ability scores became slightly less important, and they can't be buffed.
• Monster roles more defined and minions were created.

1e to 2e: Fiction first predominates. The rules exist to model the fiction, and should not be applied where they fail to do so.

3e: The balancing point, as it were. Attempt to be neither fiction first or rules first, as rules were intended to cover all aspects of the fiction adequately.

4e: Rules first. The rules are intended to take precendence over the fiction, with the fiction being adapted to the rules.

NOTE: 1e can be played "rules first" and 4e can be played "fiction first", but it is far, far easier to do it the other way around.

Janx said:

[*]designed each class to have a specific role (defender, striker)

Click to expand...

That should be combat roles, not roles.

So, in addition:

1e: Focus on adventure; PCs designed to contribute to an overall adventure.

2e: Focus on worldbuilding; PCs designed to contribute to an overall world. (Hence all of those "unbalanced" kits, many of which are social or are of dubious use in an adventure, an encounter, or a combat....each kit and each class is given a specific role in overall campaign-world terms.)

3e: Focus on encounter; PCs designed to contribute to an overall adventure (creating some real disonnances, IMHO, such as encounters lasting a long time to play, and which sidelined specific builds that were otherwise potentially useful to the overall adventure).

4e: Focus on combat; PCs designed to contribute to an overall combat.


RC

Nagol said:

2e
-- rounds didn't change time duration -- both 1e and 2e had 1 minute rounds
-- spell damage received caps to dice
-- added bards as base class; dropped assassin
-- dropped half-orcs
-- raised demi-human level limits

Click to expand...

Part of the problem here is that 2e changed so much within itself as it went along.

On release all 1e classes were gone except the core 4: Fighter, Priest, Wizard and Thief. (did the name "Rogue" for this class come about then also?) Evil PCs were banned by RAW, though many ignored this. Demons and Devils were gone. Etc.

By the time 2e ended, most of those elements had found their way back in.

Lan-"along with a frightening amount of power creep"-efan

AD&D 2.5
- attacks of opportunity
- short duration rounds

BECMI D&D (Basic D&D and expansions)
- standard ability bonuses
- short duration rounds
- prestige classes
- weapon mastery

[MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]

That has happened with every edition thus far. Simple start, and then everything finds its way in. Power creep is a matter of opinion, so I will not go there.

One of the big changes I saw from 1E was the loss of randomness. 30% chance the dragon is asleep, potion miscibility, (never ever used that word outside of D&D)

3.5 had little randomness, and 4E has even less.

Other than the d20 and such.

Lanefan said:

Part of the problem here is that 2e changed so much within itself as it went along. On release all 1e classes were gone except the core 4: Fighter, Priest, Wizard and Thief.

Click to expand...

Bwah?

The class list for 2E at launch was Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, Mage, Illusionist, Cleric, Druid, Thief, and Bard.

The only 1E PHB classes that didn't make the cut were Assassin and Monk.