Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D

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Steel_Wind

Legend
Congratulations Paizo!

Two years ago, or even one year ago anyone who said that Paizo just might outsell WotC was ridiculed off the boards. Now it's even possible to speculate about Paizo buying D&D. While that may be an even greater longshot we have at least seen the first one happen.

Two years ago? Maybe. But one year ago we were talking about the exact same thing -- because that's when everyone in the business knew it had happened.

Paizo moved into first place in RPG sales in Q3 of 2010. There were, at the time, some hardcore D&D 4E fans on ENWorld who were initially in denial -- but most of those fans squared themselves with it and matters moved on.

The sky didn't fall.

However, as Lisa Stevens has confirmed, the sales volume for the Pathfinder Core Rules has accelerated since that time. It's selling better in 2011 than it did in 2010 -- and it was already going Gangbusters in 2010.

I guess you must have missed those discussions.
 

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IronWolf

blank
I was absolutely ready to quit 3.5 at the end of its run. I found the system unworkable and wasn't really enjoying myself. My first encounter with 4e had two players going down for the count playing against kobolds. I've been hooked ever since ...

It is great that 4e made the game fun for you again. It did for many people. But there are a good many of us that liked the 3.5 era and Pathfinder has helped keep that feel that we prefer. Since that time Pathfinder has added its own spice to help with some of the flaws some found in 3.5 making it work for us all the better.

As for kobolds - pretty sure some Pathfinder kobolds could take some characters down as well - not sure this is a system relevant point.
 

Aeolius

Adventurer
I imagine the online push is probably to capture younger gamers who seem more satisfied by digital interaciton.

Do not overlook the older gamers whose schedules have all but excluded the possibility of regular game sessions. I'm 45 and have not DMed a face-to-face game since 1994. Offline I am married, have 7 kids, a job, and a hobby farm to care for. However, I have been running online games (play-by-post and chat-based) since 1995. My current chat-based game started nearly four years ago.

With my iPad I can access my IRC-based chat, look over game notes (Pages), and read rulebooks in PDF form. Do not overlook the allure of ease-of-use.
 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar
It is great that 4e made the game fun for you again. It did for many people. But there are a good many of us that liked the 3.5 era and Pathfinder has helped keep that feel that we prefer. Since that time Pathfinder has added its own spice to help with some of the flaws some found in 3.5 making it work for us all the better.

As for kobolds - pretty sure some Pathfinder kobolds could take some characters down as well - not sure this is a system relevant point.

Exactly.
 

Wednesday Boy

The Nerd WhoFell to Earth
That's wonderful news for Paizo and Pathfinder players--I'm very happy for both!

Although I really hope the news does not incite WotC to waver in their support of 4E to be more like Pathfinder. I think it'd be unfortunate to abandon 4E just because it isn't the top RPG dog. There's no shame in being in second place if your fans enjoy your product.
 

Dykstrav

Adventurer
I find this news a little sad. I see the entire problem as being one of people not willing to accept change, of wanting something to remain the same no matter how flawed it is.

We fear change

I'm a 30 year D&D player, I played and even wrote for 3.x, and I really love 4e. It's my edition. I personally think too many people have poisoned their minds to it. Kind of like the history of the tomato.

I was absolutely ready to quit 3.5 at the end of its run. I found the system unworkable and wasn't really enjoying myself. My first encounter with 4e had two players going down for the count playing against kobolds. I've been hooked ever since and refuse to buy any Pathfinder.

So... What happens if someone plays 4E for over a year and gets one of six of their campaign up to 14th level, and all the players get sick and tired of all of 4E's flaws and weren't impressed with its "innovations?"

What if the players kept dropping off because they got tired of slogging through monsters with at-wills once they've used their daily and encounter powers? What if the healing surge mechanic felt too gamist for this group's taste? What if pidgeonholing classes into certain roles felt stifling, especially when those roles are explicitly designed for their function during combat? What if skill challenges didn't amaze us because they essentially reskinned the mechanics of extended actions from the classic Storyteller system, or rituals didn't amaze us because the idea was reskinned wholesale from Vampire: the Masqerade's treament of Thaumaturgy? What if we weren't amazed by the use of terrain because we'd been using it for years?

Y'know, I'm getting sick and tired of people that use the accusation of "fear" against someone they don't agree with (although in all fairness, that sort of thing isn't limited to gaming). I didn't base my decision to stop playing 4E because I thought it was going to kill puppies or steal my car stereo. It's a product that doesn't meet my needs or expectations, simple as that.

I'm sure that there are some people who heard about 4E, shrugged, and kept churning right along with their BECMI, 1E, 2E, or 3E games. I wasn't one of them. I played it for over a year.

Then Pathfinder came along in late 2009, we tried it for a single adventure, and remembered why we started playing in the first place. It's a rules system that is robust enough that the DM doesn't have to adjudicate the vast majority of non-combat actions and basic monsters don't take multiple rounds to beat down.

Is that why you "refuse to buy any Pathfinder?" Are you afraid that you might like it? :)
 

MrGrenadine

Explorer
I find this news a little sad. I see the entire problem as being one of people not willing to accept change, of wanting something to remain the same no matter how flawed it is...etc....

Anyone want to continue to claim that 4e fans aren't as evangelical as Pathfinder fans?
 

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