Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D

[BryonD]

Agreed that IT probably doesn't match yours. The general rule of thumb is 1.25 to 1.4 times base salary.

Is that salary + 25-40% or salary + 125-140%?

25-40% seems impossibly low. Taxes alone will eat up a big part of that. Vacation and other benefits should push it over the top. Someone has to do the internal accounting. You need marketing.

Even just pure "on call" employees with no benefits will top 25%.

 

[Hussar]

Power2ool

Wow, I had never seen that before. That is SCHWEET! Thanks for that.

 

[MrGrenadine]

It's funny how it's all worked out with the biggest player taking a monumental risk and diving in head first whilst a secondary player becomes a major player by playing it safe and catering to an already established core audience.

Thats one way of looking at it. On the other hand, it seems to me that the secondary player became a major player by taking a huge risk and expanding their business in an effort to earn the audience that could've just kept playing 3.5.

And earn it, they did.

 

[JoeGKushner]

In the latest Adventure Path, Paizo contacted Chaosium and received permission to write up several Mythos beasties for the book. This might appear to be a small thing, but it's impressive in its own way because despite the fact that WoTC did a full out d20 Call of Cthulhu, the lack of support by either party, Chaosium and WoTC, indicated a true one-shot. Paizo on the other hand, has worked with Chaosium to bring these beasties back and updated for their own system.

Paizo has also went through the trouble of keeping a single setting alive and viable while expanding it at the same time with miniatures, both prepainted and unpainted, a fiction line, and most importantly, adventures.

WoTC on the other hand, has raised prices and changed formats numerous times. For example, take the new monster manual. It's more expensive than the monster vault. It's not in a box. It doesn't have the same format. It has a lot of background detail. It doesn't support epic play. For some, this is a welcome sight. For others it is a sign that WoTC still doesn't know what to do with D&D years after its launch.

Paizo immediatly knew that high level play was bunked and while they have a ton of adventure paths, and single adventurers, the former stop at 15+ and the later rarely go that high.

Know your audience, service that audience, give them what they want.

WoTC have meet the enemy and it is themselves.

 

[William Ronald]

Maybe. It is also possible that WotC will just cede the TTRPG market to Paizo, given that to a company Wotc/Hasbro's size, it isn't really worth much. Board, card and computer games are all much more profitable and seen by far more consumers. People talk about how 4E turned D&D into a board game and an MMO, but the real problem is that it didn't.

Board games are easy to grab and play and, thses days, infinitely expandable, and an MMO along the lines of Guild Wars with the ability of users to create instanced adventures a la Neverwinter Nights would be a rock solid entry into the marketplace and a true 21st century version of D&D. I'd buy and play those games, and still get my weekly TT fix from Pathfinder.

Win - win.

It will be interesting to see how WoTC responds to the changes in the market.

From talking to some local store owners, they see WotC products taking far longer to sell than they did several years ago, with Paizo products selling much faster.

On a personal note, I tried 4E a few times but did not really find myself liking it that much. I am much more drawn to Pathfinder, and I have GMed several Pathfinder Society games at a local shop. (Pathfinder Society games are a good way to draw in new players and are not exclusive like private campaigns.)

We should have a clearer idea of the state of the market in August, as some have said already in this thread. Possibly WotC might make some announcements on its strategy at GenCon.

I think that having competition in the gaming industry is good for players and GMs, as consumers have more choices. If you don't like something, vote with your wallet.

So, congratulations to Paizo. I think that Paizo's apparent success will lead to more of a customer focus in the RPG industry. I think that we will all benefit from this, regardless of what is our game of choice.

 

[rgard]

Is that salary + 25-40% or salary + 125-140%?

25-40% seems impossibly low. Taxes alone will eat up a big part of that. Vacation and other benefits should push it over the top. Someone has to do the internal accounting. You need marketing.

Even just pure "on call" employees with no benefits will top 25%.

It's 25% to 40% depending on the benefits.

A $100,000 a year salary will end up being a total cost to the employer of $125,000 to $140,000.

This is in the US. Not sure about the rest of the planet.

 

[Firebeetle]

I find this news a little sad. I see the entire problem as being one of people not willing to accept change, of wanting something to remain the same no matter how flawed it is.

We fear change

I'm a 30 year D&D player, I played and even wrote for 3.x, and I really love 4e. It's my edition. I personally think too many people have poisoned their minds to it. Kind of like the history of the tomato.

I was absolutely ready to quit 3.5 at the end of its run. I found the system unworkable and wasn't really enjoying myself. My first encounter with 4e had two players going down for the count playing against kobolds. I've been hooked ever since and refuse to buy any Pathfinder.

 

[billd91]

I find this news a little sad. I see the entire problem as being one of people not willing to accept change, of wanting something to remain the same no matter how flawed it is.

We fear change

I'm a 30 year D&D player, I played and even wrote for 3.x, and I really love 4e. It's my edition. I personally think too many people have poisoned their minds to it. Kind of like the history of the tomato.

I was absolutely ready to quit 3.5 at the end of its run. I found the system unworkable and wasn't really enjoying myself. My first encounter with 4e had two players going down for the count playing against kobolds. I've been hooked ever since and refuse to buy any Pathfinder.

Yes, because people choosing to play a game they like better fear change. The scales have fallen from my eyes. Whatever was I thinking? Now I know better. George Lucas, bring on more edits to Star Wars, anyone who stands against you fears change! Mike Mearls, bring in more old school elements in 5e because anyone who doesn't want to see 4e change is obviously just chicken! I'm off to give the Mona Lisa eyebrows because clearly anyone who prefers it as it is simply fears change, the sillies!

Apparently, I was thinking that I couldn't encounter a significantly offensive statement in the edition wars anymore. Thank you for proving me wrong.

 

[Cyberzombie]

4e D&D release: 2008.
Pathfinder release: 2009.

I'm not seeing it. They're both pretty young games.

Pretty much anyone who is going to buy the 4e core books already has. Pathfinder is just gathering steam on getting converts and is still steadily selling core books. Therefor, 4e is a mature game and Pathfinder a young one. The publishing date doesn't enter into it.

 

[prosfilaes]

Pretty much anyone who is going to buy the 4e core books already has. Pathfinder is just gathering steam on getting converts and is still steadily selling core books. Therefor, 4e is a mature game and Pathfinder a young one. The publishing date doesn't enter into it.

If publishing date doesn't enter into, then young is the wrong term. Better terms would be calling 4e a stagnating game and Pathfinder a growing game, perhaps.