Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D

[rgard]

Very true.
I'm in a OH heavy industry and I doubt IT matches us, but our costs for people exceed 200% of simple salary.

Agreed that IT probably doesn't match yours. The general rule of thumb is 1.25 to 1.4 times base salary.

 

[Pour]

The model will be actualized when devices are made at a reasonable price that can provide the same experience as a book, character sheet, and dice at the table. Right now, that kind of investment is still far too high and the devices not as easy to use as a character sheet.

Almost all my players do their characters online. But they like having their character sheets and their books at the table for easy reference. They like them right in front of them. For the standard table with minis and drawn maps on a fold out map, a bunch of laptops on the table would create a space problem.

The main advantage I've found with online tools and PDFs is as a DM. I can do most of my prep using online tools, which greatly lessens my prep time. And since I play Pathfinder, online resources for copy and paste and monster creation are a huge boon as prep time is longer. The online tools have available for Pathfinder have made high level prep time a breeze.

I could probably put all my books on laptop and bring it to the game. I might do this at some point as one laptop on the table would probably save room. Even then I might need a DM screen as the search function based on words is a pain. A well-designed PDF DM screen/index screen constantly updated would be a huge boon if I bought all the Pathfinder books online. Then I could easily type in a word in the index, get the page number and book quickly, then go to the book page and find what I want. As well as a condensed version of all the tables.

I think I might try DMing from my laptop next time. Though I will probably stilly buy print books.

The one thing about a D&D book that a digital copy doesn't seem to equal is the artwork. There's something I enjoy that never feels the same on a digital copy as perusing a book and looking at the great artwork. D&D has always had some great artists and Paizo continued that tradition in Pathfinder.

People really underestimate the effect of cool artwork in a roleplaying product. Sometimes the artwork alone can make you want to buy a product. And having that picture in your hand rather than on a digital copy is so much more satisfying.

Who can forget images like Count Strahd on the cover of Ravenloft or A Paladin In Hell. Or even the original image of the thief stealing the eye out of the Efreeti statue on the cover of the 1st edition Player's Handbook. Or the numerous awsome drawings you randomly come across in roleplaying books over the years. It enhances the overall experience of the book.

Interesting thoughts. I actually DM online almost exclusively, using a combination of Compendium, Power2ool, Maptool, mIRC and my own notes via Pages (I'd use Masterplan if it had a Mac counterpart). I love it, and it works, but for me personally I don't use the books themselves during game, I use them as reference during my prep. When I go into a game, I want the tools that'll facilitate my fast rulings and on the fly shenanigans, but what I'd use most the books for has already been taken care of. If I need a monster or item, I leap into the Compendium or Power2ool. Disease or poison or trap, usually Compendium if I don't use the basic guidelines in my physical DM screen (which I keep by my keyboard during sessions). Heh, you know it sounds like a chaotic nightmare, but I manage all these programs and materials quite fluidly.

I'm actually of the mind that the digital initiative will be considered 'blossomed' when it does what print products can't. I mean that is the great advantage in the new approach, isn't it? I posted something in the comments section of Steve's editorial, but it echoes what others across these boards have said, basically allowing for even more gamer networking and creating a DDI marketplace where subscriptions get you designer material at about the rate of Dungeon and Dragon, but which also gives you opportunities to buy material from third party and fans- complete with a rating system that allows people to build rep. DDI needs to become the hub of 4e material beyond what the staff can produce, where ideas are pushed and sold and accepted or rejected, but at least available and engaged.

In any case, beautiful artwork is hard to deny. If you look at the covers of the digital Dungeons and Dragons, though, on the whole they're gorgeous. I mean stunning. I don't think they get enough face time, though, on the site, and even less with the abolishing of PDF compilations. I'd much prefer the month's digital magazine covers gracing the webpage as opposed to the art relating to Encounters, honestly. They also need to post higher res images in their articles, and allow for higher res maps in their map packs between 'issues', but I digress.

 

[mudbunny]

Congrats to Paizo for their hard work.

One question I have is the following - Paizo can quite easily get *their* numbers from their distributors, but how likely is it that they can also get the numbers from WotC??

Also, (so I lied about one question), what markets is she looking at? Is she looking at "stores where, over the past 3 quarters, Pathfinder has outsold D&D?" (Note that I am not accusing her of doing so, but her statement is vague enough that there is *lots* of wiggle room available.

Again, this is meant in no way to remove or diminish the success that Paizo has found. They are a prime example of someone finding an unserved market and making a good living exploiting it.

 

[JeffB]

Personally I could care less whether Paizo is outselling WOTC (or anyone else). Or WOTC is outselling everyone else, even though I am a fan of 4E for the most part and not a fan of 3.X/PF for the most part. But hey, love everyone toeing the party lines

I'm really glad to see Paizo kicking so much ass though. Because it's going to make for a much better & stronger D&D game /property down the road- either because WOTC/Hasbro gets their rear in gear and removes their heads from that region, or WOTC and/or D&D gets sold off to someone who really cares and will nurse the property back to great health like Pete did when TSR was in it's death throes.

 

[WarlockLord]

Congrats to Pathfinder.

 

[Dannager]

We know this is true because of WotC's history in this regard. Remember how they told us in advance that they were pulling PDF sales?

Your inflated cynicism aside, people will start running dumps of Compendium data as soon as WotC announces a new edition. Even if they don't give us a shutdown date (and they would), the data would still get out there.

 

[Minicol]

Go, Paizo GO !

 

[Kzach]

This is funny timing given Steve's editorial about the new digital age of Dungeon and Dragon and the scare of leaping off the tire swing. We're seeing the direct results of it now. I'm just wondering when we'll see the digital model blossom. The potential is definitely there, it's just not actualized yet, despite really, really wishing it was!

It's funny how it's all worked out with the biggest player taking a monumental risk and diving in head first whilst a secondary player becomes a major player by playing it safe and catering to an already established core audience.

Things like DDI, I think, are often better done by those eager to take a slice of a new pie that hasn't even baked yet. Traditionally it's the big players that are loathe to give up their core market and progress into new areas.

As for all these programmer debates, why is it that smaller teams of developers seem able to deliver superior product in shorter amounts of time? Take things like CBLoader. They already have stuff in CBLoader that is still two months away in the official CB. I sometimes wonder if opting for the lowest bidder is always the best way to go...

 

[SteveC]

I look at statements like this and have to scratch my head. If Paizo weren't moving more product that WotC at the moment, I'd be surprised. This year, from what I've been able to determine, WotC has put out one product aimed at players.

For GMs, they have one monster book, one campaign book and two sets of tiles.

Just coming back from the FLGS I see that Paizo came out with that many products last week alone, at least they had that many sitting in the store's new releases section.

WotC seems to not be concerned with moving physical product at the moment... I couldn't give them hardly any money for product if I wanted to. If I played Pathfinder I could spend, what, $100 a month on their stuff?

It seems like there are to diametrically opposed strategies going on. I can't say as I'm all that thrilled by either one, but if it's working for them, who am I to say anything?

 

[Krensky]

As for all these programmer debates, why is it that smaller teams of developers seem able to deliver superior product in shorter amounts of time? Take things like CBLoader. They already have stuff in CBLoader that is still two months away in the official CB. I sometimes wonder if opting for the lowest bidder is always the best way to go...

If you're actually interested, Fred Brooks The Mythical Man Month: Essays on Software Engineering talks about it.