Immortals Handbook: Where's "Godsend?"

Belzamus

First Post
Hey, if you don't mind me saying so, I think your Metatron is fairly underpowered for his station. I just pulled up one of my own First Ones to compare (who is only CR 374) and she was substantially stronger (which is a bit of an understatement).

I think the problem lies in copying Sandalphon's chasis. Meta's artifacts just don't add up to what he deserves, he's likely missing a couple 100 points of ECL equivalence of abilities from them.

I'd also suggest looking at my [url="http://www.enworld.org/forum/eternity-publishing-hosted-forum/265703-immortals-metamagic.html]Immortals Metamagic abilities[/url], as well as giving him way more than a measly 12 AMC feats.

And, if you're interested, I'm attaching the stats for my First One, Ysrahl, that I used for comparison. She is, admittedly, the mightiest of my First Ones, but then, Meta should be in the vicinity, no?
 

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Hey, if you don't mind me saying so, I think your Metatron is fairly underpowered for his station. I just pulled up one of my own First Ones to compare (who is only CR 374) and she was substantially stronger (which is a bit of an understatement).

I think the problem lies in copying Sandalphon's chasis. Meta's artifacts just don't add up to what he deserves, he's likely missing a couple 100 points of ECL equivalence of abilities from them.

I'd also suggest looking at my Immortals Metamagic abilities, as well as giving him way more than a measly 12 AMC feats.

And, if you're interested, I'm attaching the stats for my First One, Ysrahl, that I used for comparison. She is, admittedly, the mightiest of my First Ones, but then, Meta should be in the vicinity, no?

I agree that statistically he is not the best HP wise or for base damage potential, I have a couple of stronger, physically, immortals. Particularly a strength diety named Queller, and a 'chosen one' type called Solaris with insane magic and ghost/ dragon based powers and dreams of becoming a Time Lord.

Metatron's big power isn't his ability to hit a rediculous amount of times per round with a pretty sizable attack bonus. Granted a 700+ can easily hit a Great Wyrm Nexus Dragon and even a Neutronium Golem, 72 wing slaps, each doing divine damage, with his aura, a free gaze attack that works 4 times a round with no save, and his touch ability coupled with his sword is still pretty good as far as damage potential goes, I think, without being over the top.

I deliberately made his powers more subtle in nature rather than just being a powerhouse because if you look in the Immortals Handbook Bestiary near the beginning, forgive me I don't have it handy, it talks about how when demons crossed the dimensional rift or whatever it's called they basically trashed the Angelic Host, meaning to me, that if the Seraphim, Ophanim, and Cherubim are their heavy hitters, and they weren't able to really stop them, if Metatron was as powerful of a combatant as you seem to imagine, and had all these combat oriented powers, nevermind that the angels at this point had no real reason to have insane combat prowess as it states angels were the only beings in the outer planes, wouldn't he just be able to insta-pwn the entirety of the encroaching horde. If his powers with damage based and destructive in nature, why wouldn't he just one-shot them? My vision of him was to make him able to force dialogue vice just pee-pee slap any who crossed him, but at the same time still give him enough options to put someone down if needed.

It also states in the Immortals handbook as well that Sandalphon is Metatron's Aspect, slightly scewing that to make a manifestation doesn't seem unreasonable, in my opinion.

About his artifacts, I agree that statistically they seem underpowered, but if you look closely at the powers and how they work in union together and with his abilities, it is set up that way to make him in essense invulnerable.

For example: Epic spells can't effect him, actually they can be directed in any direction he sees fit, he is surrounded by dead magic meaning that even if it could get around his artifact's powers it still needs to contend with that. His robes revisit damage upon all who actually sucessfully hit him and thier allies, his learned ability immunity makes all supernatural abilities and below one-trick ponies, but ultimately though his big power is Edification.

That's the beauty of his design; those who enter his aura are immediately changed to be a good alignment with no save, his Holy Messiah power makes any hostile actions from that character then impossible. Therefore there is no reason for him to be the biggest gun on the battlefield when he can use diplomacy to stop the battle alltogether before it even starts.

Horde of bloodthirsty Maskim coming to tear the universe to ribbons? Poof, now a horde of shiny Pala-skim wanting to save the universe.

Also his ability to summon an army of angels to his side has it's merits too...

That said however, I do really appreciate the input, and I honestly expected somone to have this reaction. It's not unreasonable, all one has to do is look at Death directly above and one can see the statistical differences particularly in the HP category, though Death has almost double the Quint.

I am still of the mind though that given his powers I don't think his CR is off, perhaps the auto metamagic capacity. I blew all his feats into anyfeats for simpliciy's sake. That being said, tweak him for your use if he isn't to your liking. Those anyfeats could be changed instantly into 72 extra amc feats on a whim if you really wanted to.

I like your First One btw, would you have any objections to my using it in an upcoming campaign?

Sorry for the edit:

I was looking over Ysrahl's powers and I was curious where you got 'Living Magic, Antideluvian Ancestry' and a few other powers from? The link you sent me was broken so perhaps it was from there? I am curious if there are stats for these abilities or data, To gain Dead Zone you have to take a Divine Ability tree to even gain it's use and have 130+ int. Speaking of stats I was also curious how her stats are so high, why her saves appear to be doubled, and why she has so many extra cosmic powers? It seems like she has alot of arbitrary boosts, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I have plenty of boosted characters, primarily NPC monsters like Anomalies and such. I was just wondering where they are from? If you are 'fluffing' a character for gaming purposes that's cool, go crazy, but don't compare a fluffed character to a reasonably legit one and say 'Hey look at this flaw!' That's kind of crap.

That said, I'm sure it's simply an oversight on my part.

Also the HP seems to be too high, in the Ascention guide on page 40 it says that First Ones gain d100's for HD and have 8x maximum HP/ die. I don't think that applies to HP bonuses from high con or other abilities. I mean I don't think toughness would give you x8 it's usual due to Max HP boosts for being a First One. Perhaps I'm wrong. UK, would you mind correcting me/us if possible.

I did screw up however on the HP part on my side, looking back over the First Choir Angels, they always gain x2 total HP, so he would actually gain x2 of what his current HP is. I will fix that immediately.
 
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Belzamus

First Post
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind, I'm way out of practice, haven't used the IH in at least a year.

One thing I wanted to clear up, what I said about his artifacts, I meant that I think they should still be basically the same, just *better* at what they do, or have some additional related effects maybe.

On Ysrahl, sure, I don't mind at all. She's just sitting on my hard drive. :p As long as you're okay with her metamagic abilities, go ahead and use her. She's dead in my campaign anyway (was eaten (literally) by one of her brothers ^_^).

Anyway, it is really cool to finally have stats for Metatron. He's always been my favorite angel (he's actually the desktop on my laptop at the moment) and it's awesome to see him done in the Immortals Handbook.
 

Your explanation makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind, I'm way out of practice, haven't used the IH in at least a year.

One thing I wanted to clear up, what I said about his artifacts, I meant that I think they should still be basically the same, just *better* at what they do, or have some additional related effects maybe.

On Ysrahl, sure, I don't mind at all. She's just sitting on my hard drive. :p As long as you're okay with her metamagic abilities, go ahead and use her. She's dead in my campaign anyway (was eaten (literally) by one of her brothers ^_^).

Anyway, it is really cool to finally have stats for Metatron. He's always been my favorite angel (he's actually the desktop on my laptop at the moment) and it's awesome to see him done in the Immortals Handbook.

Thank you! I appreciate it on both accounts. I'm excited to test her out, that Staff of the Akashic is pretty hardcore, it basically does 'Omnific' damage, haha.

Currently I have been needing a powerful magic user First One who, in my campaign is atttempting to reach Time Lord status and there is a way to do it that one of the PC's know about and so does she. A powerhouse boosted First One magic user just basically fell into my lap. Thank you again, and Thank God for small miracles.

Saves me a bunch of time and aggravation... ;)

Actually his stuff is upgraded versions. There weren't any real stats for how powerful an artifact without a real definable power is. So alot of them I added what I thought would be powerful enough that it was still in the same flavor as the original without being broken.

I took the Triple Crown of Divine Intervention changed it into the Triple crown of Divine Retribution and gave it the power to redirect spells as well as negating them.

I took the Ace of Swords changed it into the Ace of Blades changed it from a +45 to a +240 weapon, added the Repeat Stike ability which means anytime it hits it is treated to have hit twice and it only misses on a nat '1' I also made it that if any evil creature picks up the blade it immediately hits them with a Cherub's Re-echoing Roar. Basically dealing damage until it is wished off, but it will keep repeating this until they put it down.

Lastly I took the Robes of Redemption turned them into the Robes of the Redeemed and made it instead of simply returning damage to the person who struck the weilder, I made it so it does this damage to every ally of the beligerent with 11040 ft. So basically in one round if someone hits him successfully for 150,000 dmg, every one of the attackers allies and himself also take 150,000 dmg as backlash and this damage bypasses defense like oblique strike.

The Eternity belt I just kept the same though... :blush:

Seriously though, I would really like to see the link that you sent, the other one didn't work. I kind of always thought Dead Zone was :):):):):):):):), I'd love to see some new abilities. Well at the very least new to me. :)

Edit:

So I started pouring over the Ascension guide, I found Living Magic btw. Holy crap dude. Lol.
 
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Belzamus

First Post
Okay, I see. Forgive me, like I said, I've been away from DnD for a pretty long while. Those do boost him up quite a bit over Sandalphon. I have a personal habit of ditching artifacts for more divine abilities a lot of the time, and if I'd done him I think I would have went down a similar route as just my mental image of Meta doesn't paint him as the materialistic type :p but, I'd completely forgotten that Sandy is his avatar, so that makes a lot of sense.

Also, I'm sorry, I didn't realize my link didn't work. I'll just upload the actual file to this post, since it's probably more up to date anyway. :)

I made these because I noticed the HUGE disparity in power between melee and magic in this system. If you use these, I recommend not allowing multiple quickened spells per round unless they have some legitimate way to take more than 1 swift action. This both prevents absurd overpoweredness and makes it easier to run a round of combat. There are probably some other rules changes that went along with them, but I fear I can't remember. >_<
 

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Okay, I see. Forgive me, like I said, I've been away from DnD for a pretty long while. Those do boost him up quite a bit over Sandalphon. I have a personal habit of ditching artifacts for more divine abilities a lot of the time, and if I'd done him I think I would have went down a similar route as just my mental image of Meta doesn't paint him as the materialistic type :p but, I'd completely forgotten that Sandy is his avatar, so that makes a lot of sense.

Also, I'm sorry, I didn't realize my link didn't work. I'll just upload the actual file to this post, since it's probably more up to date anyway. :)

I made these because I noticed the HUGE disparity in power between melee and magic in this system. If you use these, I recommend not allowing multiple quickened spells per round unless they have some legitimate way to take more than 1 swift action. This both prevents absurd overpoweredness and makes it easier to run a round of combat. There are probably some other rules changes that went along with them, but I fear I can't remember. >_<

Awesome! Thanks Bel! I really appreciate it! More toys for the toybox.

I usually just disallow powers in my campaign if I think it's going to make combat too screwy. So no worries, I'm sure there will be more than one thing that I like. :)

I agree with the mental image of Metatron as being non materialistic, I just figured I'd give him upgraded Sandalphon artifacts. Agruably I could have made him a truly bad ass mofo, made all of his powers based off of his own powers but I ultimately scrapped that just because it made him seem too much like an abomination, in my mind at least...
 

Beefermatic said:
Hey guys,

Ahoy there Beefermatic! :)

I took the liberty of expanding upon UK's Gods and Monsters and made a finished version of Metatron. So submitted for your viewing pleasure: Metatron, CR 426 - d20 NPC Wiki: GM's source of stat blocks for several d20 systems

Not bad, albeit similar to Sandalphon (who is indirectly Metatron's Aspect).

It's posted on another thread as well, but I found it prudent to add it here because I am slowly fleshing out NPC's from the God's and Monster's book. Granted I am always busy with work or school, but with some luck I'll get a few more set up in the coming months. Enjoy.

I'm sure I posted vague outlines of Metatron's artifacts somewhere (possibly in this thread?)

UK, thank you for what's there already. I personally have never been a fan of 4e, I enjoy the complexity of 3.5, it makes characters seem more fleshed out in my opinion. Adding to the complexity makes them that more lifelike to me.

Each to their own. The main thing is that you are having fun with it. :)

The Immortal's Handbook was a 'Godsend' in my opinion. Thanks again. :)

My pleasure. Glad you liked it.
 


So I am thinking about editing Metatron and giving him some relevent 'voice of God' power. Any suggestions?

My current one is a power that would work similar to a divine aura. Three effects, a death/ damage effect, a suggestion effect with no save, and a ressurection/ healing effect. It'd be a cone or spread effect spread would be even to his divine aura, or half of his Effect cone's range. Cone would just be even to his effect cone range? Idk.

Thoughts?
 

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