Knight Feat Build

I was looking at optimizing a feat build for a knight up to lvl 20, primarily focused on tank. I was willing to splash some fighter levels in or make him a human.Any suggestions builds?

I'm no expert but I'd probably go with Combat Reflexes (and a bit of Dexterity - 14 ought to be enough) and I'd specialize in a reach weapon. Then a dip of Crusader for the stance that allows attacks of opportunity against 5ft. steps. That way you'd be able to keep enemies occupied to the best of your ability.

However, that build might not be optimal due to the use of Dex since Knight requires a bit of Cha as well. I don't think it's really a primary stat though, so maybe that build wouldn't cause MAD. But it also relies on the use of Book of Nine Swords, which not everyone allows.

I think a Knight might be able to do mean things with a spiked chain and Improved Trip, though it's quite feat intensive without Fighter to back it up (and it requires Int 13, normally a dump stat). If you dip for Fighter, this might be worth it.

I'm really not an expert on tank feat trees, though. When I tank, I prefer using templates like Feral and Mineral Warrior. Fast Healing and DR 8/adamantine help out quite a bit.

Knight really isn't worth it till 20.

That said, whether doing a few levels or 20, Knight has some conflicting class feature mechanics. They get shield using-based bonuses...but they also get the ability to make their threatened area into difficult terrain, which goes much better w/ a reach weapon than a non-reach weapon.

So, you have 4 methods to 1H a reach weapon or 2H a reach weapon and still use a shield that I know of.

1) Exotic Weapon Proficiency. The kusari-gama in the DMG is basically a 1H spiked chain. It would fit the bill. I think there are other 1H exotic reach weapons in other sources, too. Spinning Sword, maybe? In any case, this is the worst option to choose, IMO. And arguably requires the most in terms of DM permitting things.

2) Lance. You're proficient, and it doubles as a deadly charging weapon. Only problem is...you need to be mounted to 1H it. But you have bonus mounted feats you can now synergize with, at least! But...you also have no source of a mount that can actually take a hit (wtf, paizo?). So you need Leadership for a cohort, animal cohort feat, one of the various "get a draconic mount" feats, or a PC or his pet to serve as your ride. But there's a lot of options here, should be possible.

3) Improved Buckler Defense feat + 2H reach weapon. Kinda sucks in the long run, but gets the job done.

4) Animated shield + 2H reach weapon. Not a viable option till level 10-12, but if you can start that high, this is a nice easy solution.

Isn't there some other way to one-hand a reach weapon? Monkey Grip perhaps?

Monkey Grip does not work that way.

The Knight class has some nice features (Bulwark of Defense, Vigilant Defender, Bond of Loyalty), but some others are totally meaningless (Shield Block, Mounted Combat, Daunting Challenge). All in all, the class is a bit lackluster and suffers from MAD if you want to make full use of the Knight's Challenge abilities. Here's a Knight handbook for your perusal.

I'd recommend getting no more than 5 Knight levels, and spend the rest of your levels in classes that can actually fight, and make use of the more tanky Knight features. Crusader is probably the best fit, and there's no reason at all not to dip some Warblade, as well.

5 levels of Knight nets you Bulwark of Defense (the best Knight ability) and Vigilant Defender which has good synergy with this, two bonus feats (one of them worthless except as a PrC prerequisite, the other OK at least), medium Armor Mastery (for your Mithral Full Plate later on), a bit of a bonus from Fighting Challenge, and Test of Mettle (which can sometimes be nice).

I heavily recommend getting a reach weapon. Guisarme plus Armor Spikes is actually better than a Spiked Chain IMO, since it saves you a precious feat. Combat Reflexes is a must have, and needs at least 14 Dex to be useful. Improved Trip would be nice, but Int is a dump stat, so you probably won't get it unless you roll for ability scores and get some very nice ones indeed. So for battlefield control/lockdown, I'd say go for Stand Still.

Extra Granted Maneuver and Stone Power are nice once you get Crusader levels. From level 12 or 15, you might want to retrain Stone Power into Power Attack, though, since the temporary HP from Stone Power are dwindling in effectiveness by this point.

Law Devotion is probably the best feat to give you some extra oomph, and can be gained alongside Knowledge Devotion from a 1-level Cloistered Cleric dip (which also provides the skillpoints and class skills to buy some knowledge skills). This is strictly for better damage output, though, and not needed to fuel your role as a tank.

Another interesting choice in a tank build is dipping some Binder. Dahlver-Nar (Shield Self, some natural armor) and Savnok (great armor for free, some little DR) make great vestige binds for a tank.

Ability scores I'd arrange somewhat like this: Dex/Con (both at least 14)>Str>Cha>Int>Wis. Having at least Int 10 would be nice so you have at least two (three for a Human) skills to go with. Wis can be safely dumped since Knights have good Will saves, and Crusaders get Cha to Will saves on top of that. Str isn't really needed higher than Dex and Con. If you can, make all of these 14 at least. In 32 point buy, I'd go Str 14, Dex 16, Con 16, Cha 12, Int 10, Wis 8.

Dandu said:

Monkey Grip does not work that way.

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Maybe not RAW.

There's no need to spend a feat on using a reach weapon in one hand.

Weapons :: d20srd.org has a couple paragraphs entitled "Inappropriately sized weapons."

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.

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In short, get a small guisarme and you can use it in one hand and have reach, albeit at a -2 attack penalty.

That also means that Monkey Grip does indeed work that way, you just have to also know the "inapproprietly sized weapons" rules.

What, exactly, is the gain from using a reach weapon one-handed, when you can just use it two-handed? The Knight class has exactly one ability that makes use of a shield (Shield Block), and it's not a spectacular one. Why limit yourself by using a shield? Pick up a Guisarme and some Armor Spikes already, or if you don't mind the feat tax, get that Spiked Chain, dammit!