Knight Feat Build

I don't use books. I use SRD. Apparently the pdf I looked into was in error. No matter, the SRD has the exact same text (minus some fluff), and I found a pdf without errors. We are on the same page. Obviously I'm talking about 3.5.
The sentence from that page isn't even relevant. It explains what happens when a larger creature wields a reach weapon. It in no way contradicts or limits the rules I quoted. It says that larger creatures "can strike up to double their reach". It doesn't say that "only larger creatures double their reach", as you apparently assume.

SRD time!

Reach Weapons
Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

Note: Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten all squares 10 feet (2 squares) away, even diagonally. (This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet.)

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Uh, yes, it was quoted several times.

I am curious: What happens when you give a Dryder a reach weapon?

Drider. They have reach of 5 feet.
But by RAW they're using Large sized weapons. Yes, nonsensical, considering that a drider (or a centaur for that matter) is Large, but has arms like a normal Medium sized humanoid, but that are the rules. Fortunately I'm playing PF where that particular nonsense is fixed.

So their 5ft reach reach doubles to 20 feet?

No, it doubles to 10 feet.

So you're saying we should treat the examples given as examples. (And the language that it uses does indicate that the reach weapon rules are talking in generalities. They mention how typical Large, Medium, and Small characters have reaches of 20 and 10 feet respectively - obviously, someone who takes Aberrant Blooded and Inhuman Reach is not a "typical" character.)

Well, yes. They are just examples after all. And even if we would treat them as rules, they still don't contradict anything I said. As you yourself noticed they're talking about a "typical" creature. A drider is hardly a typical Large creature (because it has smaller reach).

ImperatorK said:

Except you did. Inhuman Reach makes your limbs longer. Deformity [Tall] also makes your limbs longer (by making you taller). Add that to the length of the weapon.
How exactly does a 6-8 ft. human reach 10-15 ft.?

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I forgot no such thing. Re-read my posts. Were I forgetting this, I would not be telling you his reach with a polearm is 20', not 30'.

I'm stating RAW. By RAW a reach weapon doubles your reach. and you're saying "human", forgeting that it's not a normal human. It's a deformed tall human with inhumanly long arms.

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Last things first: I'm not forgetting the effect of the feats on reach at all. When I talk about the normal Human, I am setting up the PHB baseline situation before the Vile and Aberration feats existed as a control. A contrast.

Then- each and every time- I account for the feats' extension of the character's arms to 15' and apply the rules of Reach AND weapon size. Otherwise I would not be telling you his reach with a polearm is 20'.

As for who is stating RAW- yes you are quoting the RAW on what the reach rule says, but you are completely ignoring the RAW of the weapon sizes chart.. When your PC has a reach of 15', it is impossible for a mundane 8' weapon to give him a reach of 30'.

If you want to say someone is houseruling here, look in the mirror, since you are tossing out part of the rules to get a reach of 30' in this situation.

Except it is, because you're changing rules.

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No, I'm not- I'm pointing out a conflict of rules that requires interpretation.

Yes. My interpretation is based on RAW. Your interpretation is based on... what exactly?

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A reading of ALL the rules regarding weapons, both the (poorly worded) Reach rules and the weapon size rules.

Realizing they are in conflict in this case that arises ONLY due to subsequently published material that exposes the awkwardness of the reach rules' formulation, I use my rational mind to figure out what the RAI is.

Which is more likely? Did the game designers intend that:

1) a creature with 15' of reach using an 8' weapon has 20' of reach

OR

2) a creature with 15' of reach using an 8' weapon has 30' of reach

I'm going with 1.

By that rule my 15 ft. reach is natural, because I have it from my physical nature (tall and inhumanly long limbs).

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"Natural" doesn't even play into my analysis, only:

1) "Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square."

AND

2) "A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder." Which we see by reference to this chart means a medium size polearm- the biggest this guy can use since he has neither Monkey Grip nor Powerful build- is only 8' long at maximum.

Viewed in the light of the second rule- the one you are conveniently ignoring- a medium size polearm (max length 8') cannot possibly give a size M creature with 15' of reach a reach of 30'. That result can only happen if you ignore the second rule, which is no less RAW than the reach rule you're focused on to the exclusion of all others.