Knight Feat Build

ImperatorK · Sep 7, 2012

I repeat - the length of a weapon has zero impact on the rules. Only RULES have impact on rules. You're using REALISM as a proof of rules contradiction.
Also, SRD is almost all rules-only. I looked up the weapons and I don't see mentioned how long they are. Thus their length is IRRELEVANT to rules.

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 7, 2012

And might I suggest at this point that if you really want to continue this, start a new thread. This thread has been hijacked enough.

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 7, 2012

ImperatorK said:
I repeat - the length of a weapon has zero impact on the rules. Only RULES have impact on rules. You're using REALISM as a proof of rules contradiction.
Also, SRD is almost all rules-only. I looked up the weapons and I don't see mentioned how long they are. Thus their length is IRRELEVANT to rules.

The weapon's size IS a part of the rules. Where the hell do you think I'm quoting from?

SRD
Weapon Size
Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.

A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.

OK, it says that a 2 handed weapon is the same size category as its intended wielder. For a Medium creature, that means his polearm will be Medium, since they are 2 handed.

We then look at what the size of a creature of Medium size is and we see that in Column 4 on Row 5 of this chart in the SRD, that a Medium creature is 4-8' tall.

That means- RAW- a 2-handed reach weapon intended for use by a size M creature is between 4'-8' in length.

Do you see NOW?

The weapon sizes are there in the rules. They just idiotically spread them out over several pages instead of simply putting another column in the weapons chart.

ImperatorK · Sep 7, 2012

RAW only states the height of a creature. There are no rules for weapon length.

BTW. What happened to not continuing this? I have no desire to continue and I hoped your post would end this.

VariSami · Sep 7, 2012

I agree with Danny. Here's a scetch of a build I came up with earlier. It's not completely auto pilot so it doesn't completely match what the OP is looking for. However, I'd just tell him the basics of using it (stance: Thicket of Blades, power: Expansion) and let him figure out the rest at his own pace. That way he could be introduced to the rules which is for the best in the long run. I'm going up to class level 8 (ECL9) with this.

Half-Giant (using the Racial Class in Complete Psionic, p. 148)

Levels:
1: Knight
Feat: Power Attack

2: No class (Level Adjustment)

3: Knight

4: Knight
Feat: Combat Reflexes
Ability: Bulwark of Defense

5: Psychic Warrior
Feat: Improved Bull Rush
Power: Expansion

6: Psychic Warrior
Feat: Knockback

7: Crusader
Feat: Shock Trooper

8: Crusader

9: Crusader
Stance: Thicket of Blades

Weapon: Guisarme, Armor Spikes

I've only marked what's important for the build. It doesn't have Stand Still because I don't see it working well with Knockback (which I find superior in this case).

Basically it's just about pushing people back. Almost anything prompts a response from the character and he can Bull Rush them whenever this happens. Expansion makes him bigger, extending his reach even farther but it's just a bonus on top of the Fighter feats.

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 7, 2012

ImperatorK said:
RAW only states the height of a creature. There are no rules for weapon length.

Yes there are, and I quoted them from the SRD- clearly, you did not read the words in the second provided SRD link:

"...a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder."

Which was then cross-referenced to the SRD's creature size chart.

BTW. What happened to not continuing this? I have no desire to continue and I hoped your post would end this.

I'm a lawyer. You tell me I'm wrong, and I'm going to respond, especially when I'm not wrong.

Besides, I didn't say we shouldn't continue this. I suggested you start a new thread- I'm perfectly willing to continue here.

ImperatorK · Sep 7, 2012

Size category =/= length.
Can you explain to me why does the greatsword not grant me reach? It is a two-handed weapon after all. And what about quarterstaff? Spear? Scythe? All the rest of the two-handers without the reach property? Are you now going to argue that they have (or should have) reach, even though the RULES clearly say they don't? And what about a Large two-hander used by a medium creature? It's probably twice the length of it's wielder. Why does it not have reach?

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 7, 2012

And the beauty of Expansion is that it can boost your size category- and thus your reach and weapon damage- 2 spaces up the chart as opposed to 1 (from things like Enlarge).

In addition, as a Psionic power, you can use it in full armor.

Dannyalcatraz · Sep 7, 2012

ImperatorK said:
Size category =/= length.

According to the SRD & PHB it is, since the rules say so (RAW). There are no other meanings of size category other than found in that chart.

Can you explain to me why does the greatsword not grant me reach? It is a two-handed weapon after all. And what about quarterstaff? Spear? Scythe?

Short answer: Because they were not given the Reach weapon quality, probably because they're on the shorter side of size M 2-handed weapons.

The spear is problematic, but they "rectified" this in later releases with a long spear that does have Reach.

And what about a Large two-hander used by a medium creature?

I addressed this early on.

1) you can't do that without Powerful Build, Monkey Grip or magic (remember the example of the Tiny creature magically wielding a gargantuan polearm you said should only have a Reach of 0', RAW?), none of which existed in the Core 3, and is only in the SRD due to Psionics being added to it.

2) my personal position was that the use of the oversized reach weapon would add an additional 5' of reach beyond

ImperatorK · Sep 7, 2012

According to the SRD & PHB it is, since the rules say so (RAW).

Nope, it does not. The Table you're quoting says "(Creature) Height & Length", not "Weapon Length".

Short answer: Because they were not given the Reach weapon quality, probably because they're on the shorter side of size M 2-handed weapons.

Wow. Now there are exceptions. You're not consistent, man.

1) you can't do that without Powerful Build, Monkey Grip or magic

Yes, I know you can't do that. Assume that I'm not an idiot. Assume also that I meant a medium creature does indeed have one of those. Geez.

(remember the example of the Tiny creature magically wielding a gargantuan polearm you said should only have a Reach of 0', RAW?)

Yes, I remember. What of it?

2) my personal position was that the use of the oversized reach weapon would add an additional 5' of reach beyond

That would be a reasonable houserule.

Knight Feat Build

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