D&D 5E A Proper Ability Score Generation Preference Poll

RobertBrus · Nov 18, 2017

Why the concern, by some posters, for power parity? As in life, some have been born with greater (and sometimes much greater) natural talents, skills, etc. This desire to balance everything is akin to homogenizing milk. It all gets spun into a sameness. And sameness is death in art, as in life. I love the idea of clear distinctions between characters. My weaknesses are your strengths, and so on. The idea of one-character parties might be useful when you can't find enough players for a game, but otherwise for me it gets quite boring. It starts feeling like a computer RPG with the cheat codes on. Besides, some of the most memorable moments come out of "oops" and players who have the courage to play up the character's weaknesses.

Viva la differance.

Satyrn · Nov 18, 2017

Bruce Grabowski said:
Why the concern, by some posters, for power parity?

We've found that a certain level of power disparity lessens our enjoyment.

Arilyn · Nov 18, 2017

Bruce Grabowski said:
Why the concern, by some posters, for power parity? As in life, some have been born with greater (and sometimes much greater) natural talents, skills, etc. This desire to balance everything is akin to homogenizing milk. It all gets spun into a sameness. And sameness is death in art, as in life. I love the idea of clear distinctions between characters. My weaknesses are your strengths, and so on. The idea of one-character parties might be useful when you can't find enough players for a game, but otherwise for me it gets quite boring. It starts feeling like a computer RPG with the cheat codes on. Besides, some of the most memorable moments come out of "oops" and players who have the courage to play up the character's weaknesses.

Viva la differance.

Being different is fine, but not much fun in DnD if I have a bunch of low stats, and others have high. We play rpgs to have fun doing cool stuff we couldn't do in real life. Having weaknesses are fun, but most people don't want to feel incompetent or boring. If my character has plus one to hit, and my buddy has plus six, it's natural to feel a little put upon.

pemerton · Nov 18, 2017

[MENTION=6916518]Bruce Grabowski[/MENTION]

You seem to equate has comparable overall mechanical efficacy with is the same. This isn't true in any RPG which has multiple dimensions of mechanical efficacy - which is all the ones I can think of at the moment.

You could get the difference you're talking about by writing up all the point-buy stat possibilities on a big chart (someone did it upthread, but didn't take it the next step of allocating those number across the six stats) and then having everyone roll on that chart. What's your objection to that?

Hussar · Nov 19, 2017

Bruce Grabowski said:
Why the concern, by some posters, for power parity? As in life, some have been born with greater (and sometimes much greater) natural talents, skills, etc. This desire to balance everything is akin to homogenizing milk. It all gets spun into a sameness. And sameness is death in art, as in life. I love the idea of clear distinctions between characters. My weaknesses are your strengths, and so on. The idea of one-character parties might be useful when you can't find enough players for a game, but otherwise for me it gets quite boring. It starts feeling like a computer RPG with the cheat codes on. Besides, some of the most memorable moments come out of "oops" and players who have the courage to play up the character's weaknesses.

Viva la differance.

It comes down to choice as well. It’s one thing to choose to be Robin, another for the game to force you. And there is the overlap issue. Say you have five PC’s. Four are close in power and one is significantly lower. No matter what that fifth character does, someone will do it better.

So, that guy does the Face stuff because he has the best Cha. That girl does the sneaky stuff. The other guy does the combat stuff. And you get to “also ran” every single scenario for the next year or two of gameplay.

Some of us think that that’s not much fun and don’t think that that should’ve decided by random chance.

Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

pemerton · Nov 19, 2017

Another option, which I don't think has been mentioned in this thread, but seems to deliver what some of the advocates of rolled stats want, is to roll first to see what class your PC will be, then allocate stats.

Where there is choice in the class (eg fighter's fighting style), you could roll for that too.

The Old Crow · Nov 19, 2017

Bruce Grabowski said:
Why the concern, by some posters, for power parity?

Because for me, the system used has to be okay for everyone at the table, not just each person individually. I know from experience that there are certain players that do not enjoy a vast power discrepancy between party members. I don't enjoy playing at a table where some players are unhappy right out the gate.

Yardiff · Nov 19, 2017

pemerton said:
Another option, which I don't think has been mentioned in this thread, but seems to deliver what some of the advocates of rolled stats want, is to roll first to see what class your PC will be, then allocate stats.

Where there is choice in the class (eg fighter's fighting style), you could roll for that too.

The 'realism/organic' argument is that your natural tendencies (ability scores) are not in your direct control. Your choice of Class (profession) is 'usually' in your direct control, even if you don't have great choices(choice between jail or the military, 2 or 3 so so jobs, etc).

For a lot of people balance is a must. I have no problem with degrees of balance; party of 5 characters, one has a 20 in prim, 3 have 18s in prim, one has a 16 in prim, the 20 and the 16(me) have similar classes, I'd have no problem with this but that could be just me. Now a 12 vs an 18 that's to big, I'd have/request the 12 reroll.

pemerton · Nov 20, 2017

Yardiff said:
The 'realism/organic' argument is that your natural tendencies (ability scores) are not in your direct control. Your choice of Class (profession) is 'usually' in your direct control

Not for the sorts of societies that D&D seems intended to emulate.

And that's before we get to the role of fate and divinity, which is highly contested in the real world but seems fairly apparent in most D&D worlds.

RobertBrus · Nov 20, 2017

Bruce Grabowski said:
Why the concern, by some posters, for power parity? As in life, some have been born with greater (and sometimes much greater) natural talents, skills, etc. This desire to balance everything is akin to homogenizing milk. It all gets spun into a sameness. And sameness is death in art, as in life. I love the idea of clear distinctions between characters. My weaknesses are your strengths, and so on. The idea of one-character parties might be useful when you can't find enough players for a game, but otherwise for me it gets quite boring. It starts feeling like a computer RPG with the cheat codes on. Besides, some of the most memorable moments come out of "oops" and players who have the courage to play up the character's weaknesses.

Viva la differance.

My statement was directed more to the overall philosophy of RPG playing, rather than the what and how of it. And it is one person's opinion, not necessarily the best or the right one for everyone. But let's not fall into the "exclude the middle" fallacy. Of course there has to be balance. I am not suggesting one person have a (+6) to hit, while another is (+1). But I need to see distinctions between characters. Everyone can try to persuade, but some are going to do it better, perhaps even much better, otherwise, what is the point of playing a charming bard if the barbarian has similar chances to succeed? Equally, the barbarian is going to dominate in combat well above what my bard can do, even though the bard can have some ability to get into the fray. And so on.

I suppose what we are probably talking about, though I don't want to speak for everyone else, is a matter of degree. I prefer a greater degree of distinction, especially as it applies to ROLE-playing the personality rather than simply the race/class. However, each character needs to have their distinctions that allow them to rise above the fray, in whatever skills/abilities that might be, and act the hero. So maybe it's more a question not of power parity, as each character will have their own unique set of "powers," but a clear distinction between the types of "powers," and how they are played out within the story.