D&D 5E Would you use Paladin "smite" spells if they were not concentration?

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I'd kill 2 birds with one stone.

I'd consider allowing all smite spells to be cast for free like divine smite but only allow one of them or divine smite to be cast per attack.
 

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S

Sunseeker

Guest
It has been my experience that many paladin spells are not used at all. Spell slots are cashed in for Divine Smite more than actual casting at my table.

When I play a paladin in 5E, I rarely even write down my spells.
 

Your can’t lose concentration between your bonus action and action, nothing can happen to force a concentration check.

If you miss you don’t lose the spell, but Paladins have good concentration check chances between not getting hit and decent saves.
That isn't the issue.
The main issue is that Paladins have several other good concentration spells, like keeping bless up on another party member. Thus they can't use their smite spells since you can only concentrate on one spell at a time.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
That isn't the issue.
The main issue is that Paladins have several other good concentration spells, like keeping bless up on another party member. Thus they can't use their smite spells since you can only concentrate on one spell at a time.

Also if you miss with all your attacks and have started conenctrating on a smite spell you risk the chance of being hit before being able to use it.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
Removing Concentration would help make these spells more viable, but I suspect that many players would still just use regular smite. My (convoluted) solution is to remove the smite spells from the paladin spell list and use them as class features for Divine Smite. You can remove Concentration, but limit them to only 1 active Smite at a time. This keeps it somewhat balanced, because it makes the spells a lot better, while nerfing the class feature, hopefully keeping the overall class balanced.
 

You can also make them reactions that trigger on a successful attack, eating a reaction instead of a character's concentration, while avoiding the possibility of stacking multiple smites in the process. I'd say that makes them a bit more powerful, but not that much.
 

Removing Concentration would help make these spells more viable, but I suspect that many players would still just use regular smite. My (convoluted) solution is to remove the smite spells from the paladin spell list and use them as class features for Divine Smite. You can remove Concentration, but limit them to only 1 active Smite at a time. This keeps it somewhat balanced, because it makes the spells a lot better, while nerfing the class feature, hopefully keeping the overall class balanced.
My solution is to remove the smite class feature, and replace it with a bonus action spell that does the same damage. It solves the problem of paladin's burning through their spell slots twice as quickly as everyone else, and it also brings the class feature into line with the existing smite spells.
 

Thurmas

Explorer
It's been mentioned at least part already, but I would really enjoy seeing these changes:

1. The smite spells do not require concentration.
2. They are cast as a reaction when you hit with an attack.
3. Remove the class ability of divine smite (keep the bonus 1d8 damage at 11).
4. Improve the smite spells a little bit, by making damage the same. Level 1 Smite spell 2d8, Level 2 Smite spell 3d8, etc. They scale upward per spell slot level at +1d8 per slot.
5. Each smite spell has an effect, but still doesn't require concentration. Something set on fire should just keep burning, not require concentration. Continuing effects just keep happening, but allow a save at the end of each turn to end it. The effects also scale per spell slot spent if appropriate. Just for example, make spells like this, with a couple new ones added to keep things interesting!

Level 1
Searing Smite - 2d8 Fire Damage - 2d8 Fire Damage each turn until successful Concentration Save
Thunderous Smite - 2d8 Thunder Damage - Strength Saving Thrown or pushed 10 feet and knocked prone.
Wrathful Smite - 2d8 Psychic Damage - Wisdom Saving Throw or frightened. Wisdom save at end of each turn to end frightened.

Level 2
Branding Smite - 3d8 Radiant Damage - Becomes visible, sheds dim light. Charisma saving throw at end of each turn to end.
Crippling Smite - 3d8 Cold Damage - Dex save or targets speed is reduced to 0. Dex save at the end of each turn to end effect.
Compelling Smite - 3d8 Radiant Damage - Target has disadvantage on any attack rolls not against you. Wisdom save at the end of turn to end effect.

Level 3
Blinding Smite - 4d8 Radiant Damage - Constitution Save or blinded. Constitution save at end of each turn to end blindness.
Dispelling Smite - 4d8 Psychic Damage - End one magical effect or spell on the target.
Draining Smite - 4d8 Necrotic Damage - Gain temporary hit points equal to half the damage dealt.

Level 4
Staggering Smite - 5d8 Psychic Damage - Wisdom save or disadvantage on attacks and ability checks and can't take reactions. Wisdom save at end of each turn to end effect.
Banishing Smite - 5d8 Psychic Damage - Banished to a harmless demiplane. Charisma Save at the end of each turn to return.

Level 5
Destructive Smite - 6d8 Radiant Damage - 6d8 radiant damage to all creatures of your choice within 10' of the target, Dex save for half.

I think the increase in damage for the spells is needed, since you are now restricted to only smiting once per turn and it costs your reaction. Plus, you have to learn the spells. If you don't bother to learn lower level smites, then you can only cast smites at the levels of the smites you do know. I think this strikes a nice balance of improving individual smites, but decreasing the frequency and nova ability.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
It's been mentioned at least part already, but I would really enjoy seeing these changes:

1. The smite spells do not require concentration.
2. They are cast as a reaction when you hit with an attack.
3. Remove the class ability of divine smite (keep the bonus 1d8 damage at 11).
4. Improve the smite spells a little bit, by making damage the same. Level 1 Smite spell 2d8, Level 2 Smite spell 3d8, etc. They scale upward per spell slot level at +1d8 per slot.
5. Each smite spell has an effect, but still doesn't require concentration. Something set on fire should just keep burning, not require concentration. Continuing effects just keep happening, but allow a save at the end of each turn to end it. The effects also scale per spell slot spent if appropriate. Just for example, make spells like this, with a couple new ones added to keep things interesting!

Level 1
Searing Smite - 2d8 Fire Damage - 2d8 Fire Damage each turn until successful Concentration Save
Thunderous Smite - 2d8 Thunder Damage - Strength Saving Thrown or pushed 10 feet and knocked prone.
Wrathful Smite - 2d8 Psychic Damage - Wisdom Saving Throw or frightened. Wisdom save at end of each turn to end frightened.

Level 2
Branding Smite - 3d8 Radiant Damage - Becomes visible, sheds dim light. Charisma saving throw at end of each turn to end.
Crippling Smite - 3d8 Cold Damage - Dex save or targets speed is reduced to 0. Dex save at the end of each turn to end effect.
Compelling Smite - 3d8 Radiant Damage - Target has disadvantage on any attack rolls not against you. Wisdom save at the end of turn to end effect.

Level 3
Blinding Smite - 4d8 Radiant Damage - Constitution Save or blinded. Constitution save at end of each turn to end blindness.
Dispelling Smite - 4d8 Psychic Damage - End one magical effect or spell on the target.
Draining Smite - 4d8 Necrotic Damage - Gain temporary hit points equal to half the damage dealt.

Level 4
Staggering Smite - 5d8 Psychic Damage - Wisdom save or disadvantage on attacks and ability checks and can't take reactions. Wisdom save at end of each turn to end effect.
Banishing Smite - 5d8 Psychic Damage - Banished to a harmless demiplane. Charisma Save at the end of each turn to return.

Level 5
Destructive Smite - 6d8 Radiant Damage - 6d8 radiant damage to all creatures of your choice within 10' of the target, Dex save for half.

I think the increase in damage for the spells is needed, since you are now restricted to only smiting once per turn and it costs your reaction. Plus, you have to learn the spells. If you don't bother to learn lower level smites, then you can only cast smites at the levels of the smites you do know. I think this strikes a nice balance of improving individual smites, but decreasing the frequency and nova ability.

I absolutely hate almost all this.
 


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