D&D 5E Any ideas for a Fire Dancer Bard subclass?

Quickleaf · Dec 12, 2017

Kobold Avenger said:
So for a Bard subclass that's inspired by fire dancers, whether it be with flaming batons, staves, poi, fans or whatever with fire breathing and so on, would you say they'd be more on the caster side like Lore and Glamour or more of the fightery side like Valour and Blades? I get that at later levels like 10 and above with the base Bard ability Magical Secrets they'd probably pick some of the fire spells that Bards don't get, but at lower levels such as those in a subclass what abilities could they possess? I guess fire resistance is one because they understand fire, but should such a college even be focused on dealing fire damage or should it be more about some emotion or ideal like passion?

There may be unexplored design space for a reaction-focused reach-weapon bard... mechanically, I'm thinking something akin to certain Pathfinder "-finale" bard spells which require you to have active bardic performance & then let you end the performance to perform some cool trick. That would feel very in keeping with a fire dancer bard.

Maybe while they have a bardic performance ongoing, they gain scaling fire damage to melee attacks, but then they gain options to end their bardic performance as a reaction to certain triggers (e.g. ally being charmed, being attacked in melee) in order to make a reactive melee attack with kickers like blinding the opponent momentarily.

Charlaquin · Dec 13, 2017

Frankly, I’d just go College of Swords and allow them to replace their Scimitar Proficiency with Torches. Treat them as either clubs, quarterstaves or whips, depending on if your player wants to go standard fire juggling, fire staff twirling, or fire poi spinning style) that deal an additional 1 fire damage on a hit.

Leatherhead · Dec 13, 2017

Might be a good time for a gish style damage character.

First of all, they need access to the following cantrips:
Control Flame
Greenflame Blade
Produce flame.
Then throw in some good proper burn spells like Fireball for an expanded spell list like warlocks have.

I mean, they technically have that already, but it would be nice to give access to those kinds of spells before level 10.

Secondly, they totally need a Fire-Breath attack. This is the "Expend Inspiration Dice" option, so it it should scale with the type of die used. Making it a Bonus Action AoE lets the bard do whatever action they want, including casting a spell.

The hard parts come next. At level 6 they are going to need some way to actually survive melee combat. I propose that they take an action to cause fire to float and dance around them for a duration, causing any enemy that strikes them to take fire damage (Also, it looks flashy). And as a Reaction to being attacked, they may consume this fire sheathing them to cause a blinding flash, forcing the creature attacking them to make a saving throw or become blinded for a turn or two.

Then at level 14 you let them become living flame: They gain immunity to fire, resistance to cold, and their hair becomes an eternal torch or something.

KahlessNestor · Dec 13, 2017

Charlaquin said:
Frankly, I’d just go College of Swords and allow them to replace their Scimitar Proficiency with Torches. Treat them as either clubs, quarterstaves or whips, depending on if your player wants to go standard fire juggling, fire staff twirling, or fire poi spinning style) that deal an additional 1 fire damage on a hit.

You don't need proficiency in torches. You basically already have it by default under the improvised weapons rule (treat it as a club with +1 fire damage). Maybe convince a DM to allow you to coat your swords with alchemist fire for +1d4 fire damage for one minute. Or if that's too much, maybe just +1 fire damage like the torch.

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Charlaquin · Dec 13, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
You don't need proficiency in torches. You basically already have it by default under the improvised weapons rule (treat it as a club with +1 fire damage).EN World mobile app

At the DM’s option, yeah. Spelling it out that the character is proficient in Torches and can treat them as clubs, quarterstaves, and/or whips that deal 1 additional fire damage on a hit when lit just insures the functionality against stingy DMs.

The Crimson Binome · Dec 13, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
You don't need proficiency in torches. You basically already have it by default under the improvised weapons rule (treat it as a club with +1 fire damage).

I think that really does a disservice to legitimate clubs. There's a significant difference between a baseball bat and a chair leg.

KahlessNestor · Dec 14, 2017

Charlaquin said:
At the DM’s option, yeah. Spelling it out that the character is proficient in Torches and can treat them as clubs, quarterstaves, and/or whips that deal 1 additional fire damage on a hit when lit just insures the functionality against stingy DMs.

I just wouldn't want to give up scimitar proficiency, because flaming scimitars would be way cool, too. Not sure how a DM could argue that a torch isn't a club, but I suppose there is someone out there that is like that

KahlessNestor · Dec 14, 2017

Saelorn said:
I think that really does a disservice to legitimate clubs. There's a significant difference between a baseball bat and a chair leg.

I would argue a baseball bat is a greatclub (requires two hands). How is a chair leg, branch, or torch any different than a club? The improvised weapons rules specifically states that if a weapon is sufficiently similar to something on the weapons table, to just use that (including proficiency). You see it in movies and action all the time, swinging a torch at something. I've certainly done this with a Human fighter when he needed light. So he duel wielded shortsword and torch instead of his longspear. A club is just a length of wood. That's all a torch is, really, also.

Charlaquin · Dec 14, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
I just wouldn't want to give up scimitar proficiency, because flaming scimitars would be way cool, too. Not sure how a DM could argue that a torch isn't a club, but I suppose there is someone out there that is like that

That’s fair. I mean, if I were the DM in this scenario I probably wouldn’t require the player to give up that scimitar Proficiency - if one of my players wanted to play a fire dancer Bard, I’d just recommend they go College of Swords and use Torches. But, since I was recommending it for someone else’s game I suggested the tradeoff.

The Crimson Binome · Dec 14, 2017

KahlessNestor said:
I would argue a baseball bat is a greatclub (requires two hands). How is a chair leg, branch, or torch any different than a club? The improvised weapons rules specifically states that if a weapon is sufficiently similar to something on the weapons table, to just use that (including proficiency). You see it in movies and action all the time, swinging a torch at something. I've certainly done this with a Human fighter when he needed light. So he duel wielded shortsword and torch instead of his longspear. A club is just a length of wood. That's all a torch is, really, also.

You can wield a baseball bat in one hand. A one-armed person with a baseball bat is still very dangerous. That's why a baseball bat is definitely a club and not a greatclub.

I'm not saying that a torch, or chair leg, is worthless as a weapon; as an improvised weapon, it's definitely better than nothing. I'm just saying that it's not as effective as a club, because a real club - like a baseball bat - is legitimately scary. A real club is significantly more than just a length of wood. If you attack someone with a baseball bat, then that's considered assault with a deadly weapon.

D&D 5E Any ideas for a Fire Dancer Bard subclass?

Quickleaf

Legend

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.

KahlessNestor

Adventurer

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

The Crimson Binome

Hero

KahlessNestor

Adventurer

KahlessNestor

Adventurer

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)

The Crimson Binome

Hero

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