Did magic-users use weapons more often in older editions?

[Bluenose]

My first Magic-User was a long time ago, but I remember how he died. I'd taken a look at my 2hp and 1 spell/day, and decided that I'd try to contribute anyway. He carried a staff he wasn't proficient with, and 31 darts (carefully calculated so that he wasn't overburdened). I threw darts, and threw more darts, and cast my spell, and threw darts, and then I had to go to a lesson. When I got back from it, because everyone else didn't have to go to a lesson at that time of day abd the game could go on in my absence, my MU was dead after the paladin's player sent him into melee with the hobgoblin chief. Not after running out of darts, but because the player didn't realise they were a missile weapon.

My next character used a bow. He knew what that was.

Yes, in older editions I think MU characters used weapons more.

 

[Celebrim]

In 1e...

Very few people even attempted a single classed M-U from 1st level, and those were often unsuccessful. I can't recall one getting up over 6th level 'honestly'. They required significant DM help to be survivable at low levels because their AC sucked and they needed fairly rare items to improve it and they never seemed to get beyond the point where 1 lucky hit would drop them. Constrast with a fighter which could probably afford plate and shield by 2nd level, after which time few hits would actually hit and several hits would be needed to drop him from any likely foe. Once you added Weapon Specialization into the mix, his average damage output was probably higher as well.

When I played a single classed M-U (which was rarely), I do remember ducking behind the other players and throwing the occasional dart just to be semi-productive. At most levels your main purpose was 'crowd control', primarily with the goal of preventing the party from being surrounded. So you typically held sleep, web, and latter the awesomeness of fireball for situations where the party was outnumbered by 2:1 or more. You could also supplement this with a few flasks of burning oil, and hopefully early on found some combat wands.

Your secondary purpose ended up being casting 'Detect Magic' and latter on (when you could afford the reagent) 'Identify' so that the fighters would know what junk to haul out of the dungeon.

M-U's that went hand to hand typically didn't last that long IME. Hitting something with a staff or dagger (preferably a magic one) was more of a last resort sort of thing, unless your DM was gracious and let you use your staff like a polearm to poke monsters on the other side of the meat shield (which had a really low success rate anyway).

All the higher level M-U's I'm familiar with were actually dual classed elves, in my case a thief/M-U. This didn't significantly up your combat ability, as the wider weapon selection and extra 1/2 hitpoint per level only went so far (thief attack progression was then closer to wizard attack progression in 3e), but it did give you a much easier route to adequate AC at low levels, and much more to do out of combat which alleviated the potential for boredom. And, by the time your thief abilities would largely stop being relevant, you started picking up significant enough M-U abilities to compensate (invisibility, fireball, polymorph self, etc.).

 

[karlindel]

In 2e, my Wizards used Darts. The Rate of Fire meant a decent chance at getting a hit in, and that extra damage could take out weaker enemies to let the fighters focus on the big ones.

In 3e, my Wizards always carried a crossbow at low levels, although this was seldom used after lvl 3 and almost never after lvl 5, as at that point I usually had enough spells to cast one every round of a combat. I did have one Wizard who was not built for melee, but would go into it if he thought it would tactically help the party. At lvl 1, he was out of spells, so he pulled out his dagger to help the rogue flank, and managed to hit the orc three times, effectively killing it on his own. Later, he sometimes went into melee to help the fighter/rogue flank, which once resulted in the monster taking him out to get rid of the sneak attack damage.

In 4e, Wizards only use weapons for Opportunity Attacks, or if they are stuck in melee and don't have a blast power available, in order to avoid taking Opportunity Attacks.

 

[grodog]

My 2-year-old son Henry has been killing things left-and-right with his dart-throwing skills in our weekly Castle Greyhawk games: he's more effective than most of the henchmen, and some of the front-line fighters, given his propensity for rolling natural 20s!

Session summaries @ K&K @ KNIGHTS & KNAVES ALEHOUSE • View topic - grodog's Castle Greyhawk game with the boys in case anyone's interested.

 

[Plane Sailing]

What, did nobody get wands or staffs in 1e?

In our games by the time the wizard had clawed his way up to 3rd or 4th level he had probably found a wand (maybe even a staff), and with wands having 100 charges and staffs having 200 charges (IIRC) that gave them plenty of magic to use when the spells ran out.

My last 1e wizard, when at low level (1st-3rd) did use darts as his secondary backup weapon because of the rate of fire. His main backup weapon was fighting dogs(!). He had taken the appropriate non weapon proficiency (animal handling, or something similar) and used his early treasure to purchase and train a group of mastiffs.

Cheers

 

[Nagol]

Wands had 100, rods had 50, and staves had 25 charges in 1e. The typical item already had some charges used (typically up to 0-20% previously used). Identifying the number of remaining charges took cash. Many offiensive powers took more than one charge to produce.

Most such items couldn't be recharged and for those that could be recharged, no recharge rules were given.

The chances of finding such an item, if using random treasure generation, is quite low (about 5% of magic items found will be a rod, staff or wand), and only a subset of those offers offensive capability.

You certainly couldn't count on acquiring a wand for low-level MUs to use in battle.

 

[Nagol]

<snip>

My last 1e wizard, when at low level (1st-3rd) did use darts as his secondary backup weapon because of the rate of fire. His main backup weapon was fighting dogs(!). He had taken the appropriate non weapon proficiency (animal handling, or something similar) and used his early treasure to purchase and train a group of mastiffs.

Cheers

That was probably 2e since 1e doesn't have non-weapon proficiencies.

That said, war dogs were a prized addition to most low level 1e groups I was in as well. We didn't use them as backup though -- the were front-line!

 

[Nikosandros]

That was probably 2e since 1e doesn't have non-weapon proficiencies.

There are in Oriental Adventures, Dungeoneer's Survival guide and Wilderness Survival Guide.

That said, war dogs were a prized addition to most low level 1e groups I was in as well. We didn't use them as backup though -- the were front-line!

Yes, war dogs are powerful and so is flaming oil.

IME, in AD&D magic-users resort a lot to weapons (and oil) while attempting to survive the low levels.

 

[billd91]

The chances of finding such an item, if using random treasure generation, is quite low (about 5% of magic items found will be a rod, staff or wand), and only a subset of those offers offensive capability.

You certainly couldn't count on acquiring a wand for low-level MUs to use in battle.

Yep, wands weren't that easy to come by, so most MUs and illusionists made quite a bit of use out of weapons for at least a few levels in 1e/2e. Darts were pretty common, the deep gnome illusionist fancied a whip (he was a little odd), thrown daggers were also pretty common.

On the chances of finding a wand, check the random treasure tables. In 1e, they're definitely skewed away from long-term wizard equipment. That was one of the balancing features of 1e. Fighter classes needed their magic equipment more than wizards did, so those things were considerably more likely to appear on the random treasure tables. Another part of the argument that 1e was better balanced than a lot of people think.

 

[Celebrim]

Wands had 100, rods had 50, and staves had 25 charges in 1e. The typical item already had some charges used (typically up to 0-20% previously used). Identifying the number of remaining charges took cash. Many offiensive powers took more than one charge to produce.

Most such items couldn't be recharged and for those that could be recharged, no recharge rules were given.

The chances of finding such an item, if using random treasure generation, is quite low (about 5% of magic items found will be a rod, staff or wand), and only a subset of those offers offensive capability.

You certainly couldn't count on acquiring a wand for low-level MUs to use in battle.

This.

Also, DMs weren't slaves to the rules. Following the approach common in low level published modules (and actually, published modules generally), wands found at low level often had more than 20% of thier charges used. It wasn't usual for me to find as a player, or for me to place as a DM wand/staff/rod treasure at low levels that only had 15-30% of the charges remaining. This for me was a pure balance consideration. A near fully charged wand of magic missiles encountered at low level might be somewhat desirable from my perspective as DM. A fully charged wand of fire encountered at low level would completely unbalance the party.