Did magic-users use weapons more often in older editions?

[Dausuul]

My last 1e wizard, when at low level (1st-3rd) did use darts as his secondary backup weapon because of the rate of fire. His main backup weapon was fighting dogs(!). He had taken the appropriate non weapon proficiency (animal handling, or something similar) and used his early treasure to purchase and train a group of mastiffs.

Ha, war dogs! I remember those. At low levels they could seriously shred your opposition. My 2E necromancer used 'em to great effect.

Good times.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I see low-level magic users in OD&D and in 1e AD&D using missile weapons quite a bit. They also tend to be the guys in the back ranks most like to be doing stuff like getting flaming oil ready. Smart players keep them out of melee, though. (But MUs also tend to have a charmed bodyguard or two, and get some "melee by proxy" fun that way.)

Of course, once the magic user acquires a wand, daggers and darts tend to be forgotten.

(In my OD&D campaign, I use the more liberal scroll creation rules from Holmes basic, so low-level MUs have more magic options than they might, otherwise.)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What, did nobody get wands or staffs in 1e?
Cheers

Typically, goodies like that were fairly depleted by their fomer owners before PCs got their hands on them...

Until they started making their own, that is.

But until that point, the best you could expect was a few combat's worth of use of them.

And we LIKED it like that!

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

Yes, M-U's in our 1E parties were expected to be fire support even if it wasn't usig a spell - daggers & darts at low levels and eventually a staff of striking is a pretty effective weapon if you can find one.

People may also forget that in Basic D&D everyone had the same to-hit numbers at levels 1-3 and Mages usually had a decent Dex (being the 2nd or 3rd favorite stat) so there's no reason not to be chucking daggers like a madman. I've been running a Basic game for my kids over the summer and the wizard carries about 10 daggers, some flaming oil, holy water, wolfsbane, and anything else he can get his hands on that might be useful.

By the time you get to 3E there are a lot of options - wizards can acquire more weapon proficiencies than just daggers or darts and the ease of scroll-making gives a player a lot of options.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Wands had 100, rods had 50, and staves had 25 charges in 1e. The typical item already had some charges used (typically up to 0-20% previously used). Identifying the number of remaining charges took cash. Many offiensive powers took more than one charge to produce.

...

You certainly couldn't count on acquiring a wand for low-level MUs to use in battle.

It must have been OD&D then which had 200 charges in a staff. Good times!

I wasn't thinking that people would count on it, but since it took us about a year to get to 4th level that was plenty of time to find a wand, and even 20-30 charges was really useful. We were using modules or games where DMs decided treasure rather than rolling for it.

That was probably 2e since 1e doesn't have non-weapon proficiencies.

1e had the wilderness survival guide & others - that was where we got it from.

Cheers

 

[TarionzCousin]

May wizard did, if this counts as a weapon:

[sblock]Run Away!!!

[/sblock]

 

[Diamond Cross]

Oh yes, I must've used up thousands of bullets from just standing in the back and letting loose. I actually once killed an Ogre with a critical hit and rolling 00 on the original critical hit tables once, playing in a 1e game.

 

[Chainsaw]

What has been your experience in this?

Bullgrit

In 12 sessions of OD&D (S&W), I think our resident magic-user might have actually entered the front rank of combat to take a melee swing only a few times, if that (I can't recall any). He's so weak and has such crappy armor that it's a ludacrisp proposition given his attack ability. He has probably thrown a flaming oil whenever possible, but even that is not terribly effective given his attack strength. He usually tries to avoid getting hit without positioning himself out of spellcasting range/position.

Having said that, his sleep and phantasmal force spells have saved our asses at least once a session. He knows he's valuable and doesn't really fret over not rolling a d20 every round. If the player had wanted that, he'd have played a fighting-man, I think.

Edit: I should also add that we get XP for recovering gold, not just for killing - so if we're trying to figure out a trap or solve a puzzle, where there's likely treasure as a reward, the magic-user participates as much as anyone else and isn't at any disadvantage.

 

[Henry]

I neglected to mention that this fact of M-Us using weapons so much was a factor I didn't like about older D&D. In truth, it feels kind of like telling a fighter that he can swing his two-handed sword only a few times per day before being too exhausted to use those "high-damage" weapons, and he needs to stick with daggers and darts for the rest of the day because they take less effort.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Well, this is definitely one reason why mages are considered squishy.

But in 1e and 2e, while magic users (now called arcane casters), may have started out squishy, as they gain in level, they gain a lot of magic, and they then become artillery.

Because, without magic, fighters can only kill monsters one at a time, but magic users can affect entire groups.