D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 ShielMaster/Crusader worth for tanking?

[Luka]

WOW there's a lot! Still several alignment-based and don't see how plane shift and gate are offensive but they look pretty awesome! Thanks , gonna have to spend some points on Wis though, or is there any way to raise it without needing to spend the points?

 

[Dandu]

If you plane shift someone to the elemental plane of fire, what happens to them?

 

[Luka]

If you plane shift someone to the elemental plane of fire, what happens to them?

Oh I though it had to be a Willing Target, and isn't the elemental plane of Earth's better (Instant Disintegration)? anyways thanks , would work pretty good in a Cleric/Crusader/Shieldmaster build for tanking and fighting back ranged enemies and taking even more damage than normally would take.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Clerics are healers, aren't they? Do they have any Offensive spells (read somethin around about some "Cometfall")?

This is a very god example of why you've been encouraged to set aside what you know of other games and read the Players Handbook all the way through. Clerics are not "White Magic Healers", they are not purely good, infact, the best kinds of Cleric builds involve doing very little healing at all.
It has been interesting to see a videogamer try to see D&D through a video game player's eyes, but D&D is not what you think it is.

 

[cjosephs1s]

[MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION] My Fire Giant is actually thinking about building a vacation home there for the winter months...lol

I'm still trying to figure out why you want the shieldmaster PrC?

Also in my reading of the Crusader's Handbook in order to really maximize the Crusader class and gain access to your 9th level manuevers/stances you don't want to multiclass anymore than 6 levels outside of it. So if you take your 5 levels of Shieldmaster that only leaves 1 level of something else to dip into.

For a 1 level dip I of a melee class I wouldnt' dip into any casting class as you don't really get anything for it and have to spread abilities even further.

The Reason I didn't go with a tower shield for my build was two fold: first off I grabbed my 3.0 handbook that was next to me and saw it provided no AC bonus (my bad but old habits die hard). Next I looked it up in the 3.5 just to make sure and it only provides a +2 dex bonus and I wanted to maximize my dex bonus. Maybe others would have done it differently to maximize it and that's fine. But I wanted this guy to have a decent dex bonus due to the fact that he has the potential to get tons of AoO per round and wanted to be able to take advantage of it. So I still dont' regret it. I feel this characters AC is sufficiently high and can be raised at least another 12 points through magic items and enchants bringing his AC to 41 at level 20 with nothing other than his own gear and I'm sure it could be higher with some tweaking and magic effects.

Also keep in mind for the Crusader build you do want to try and take advantage of Steely Resolve and Furious Counterstrike. If you never get hit you can't take advantage of this. And simply by taking damage you get to do more damage which this build needs as he's using a 1h weapon and is going to be competing with spellcasters that can do a lot more damage than him. Monsters tend to attack the thing they hate the most in combat

And Glass Cannon isn't a PrC. Its a build type like Blaster, DPS, Tank, Controller, ect. I could take a good guess as the general properties but will someone else who knows exactly what it is explain it. Thanks.

Also Heal in 3.5 only heals 10HP/level to a max of 150 if I remember right. So at the current progression I have laid out for the Crusader this won't even bring him to full HP using average HP at 20th level, let alone if he gets Full HP. Also the manuevers that allow you to heal yourself or party members require standard actions to perform. Spells also require standard actions to perform. So odds are you are only going to be able to do one or the other each round..not both.

When we say "Saves" we mean all three. You need to learn what each specific type does and how it works. Fortitude, Reflex and Will. These are each based on a different stat. Not all spells use the same saving throw. Some are Fort, some Ref, some Will, some get no save but have other means of contact. So while Charisma helps your Will save and Evasion helps you once you make your Reflex save these aren't just things you do. You need to understand why you should do them. While I'm not even familiar with a lot spells like Dandu I would bet that based on a simple description of what the spell does I can guess what kind of save it gets or if it gets one because I know how the saves work (I'd guess plane shift gets a will save unless there's a touch attack involved)

Also we keep trying to tell you this isn't a video game and doesn't play like one and isn't based off of one. Even the D&D video games such as Neverwinter Nights, DDO and others don't play the same and have the same rules as the books.

 

[Dandu]

Plane Shifting an enemy involves a touch attack. They get a will save to resist it. If they do not resist it (and have no way of plane shifting themselves) bad things happen.

 

[Luka]

I'm still trying to figure out why you want the shieldmaster PrC?

For having a reason to use the tower shield aside from the AC bonus (They get Impact Shield and magic resistance with them, and can bash with Tower Shields)

The Reason I didn't go with a tower shield for my build was two fold: first off I grabbed my 3.0 handbook that was next to me and saw it provided no AC bonus

What? it give a +4 Shield Bonus

And Glass Cannon isn't a PrC. Its a build type like Blaster, DPS, Tank, Controller, ect. I could take a good guess as the general properties but will someone else who knows exactly what it is explain it. Thanks.

dude, Glass Cannon is the complete opposite of Tank, a glass cannon is all Attack no defense, a Tank is all defence.

When we say "Saves" we mean all three. You need to learn what each specific type does and how it works. Fortitude, Reflex and Will. These are each based on a different stat. Not all spells use the same saving throw. Some are Fort, some Ref, some Will, some get no save but have other means of contact. So while Charisma helps your Will save and Evasion helps you once you make your Reflex save these aren't just things you do. You need to understand why you should do them. While I'm not even familiar with a lot spells like Dandu I would bet that based on a simple description of what the spell does I can guess what kind of save it gets or if it gets one because I know how the saves work (I'd guess plane shift gets a will save unless there's a touch attack involved)

Ring of Evasion and high Con would help for Ref and Fort, wouldn't it?

Also Heal in 3.5 only heals 10HP/level to a max of 150 if I remember right. So at the current progression I have laid out for the Crusader this won't even bring him to full HP using average HP at 20th level, let alone if he gets Full HP. Also the manuevers that allow you to heal yourself or party members require standard actions to perform. Spells also require standard actions to perform. So odds are you are only going to be able to do one or the other each round..not both.

it's both maneuvers and the spell, it heals a lot.

 

[emoplato]

For having a reason to use the tower shield aside from the AC bonus (They get Impact Shield and magic resistance with them, and can bash with Tower Shields)



What? it give a +4 Shield Bonus



dude, Glass Cannon is the complete opposite of Tank, a glass cannon is all Attack no defense, a Tank is all defence.



Ring of Evasion and high Con would help for Ref and Fort, wouldn't it?




it's both maneuvers and the spell, it heals a lot.

What csjoseph1 is trying to say Luka, the key cornerstone abilities of the crusader is steely resolve and furious counterstrike. He says you want to take damage because not only do you delay damage but the damage delayed translates into bonus attack and damage to all of your attacks from furious counterstrike. The crusader also has a couple abilities to heal themselves when the delay is over. A feat called stone power also mitigates it by 10 while only taking bonus attack from furious counterstrike. It translates into a major damage sponge without really even needing much armor especially since combat reflexes gives AoO's equal to your dexterity modifier while armor restricts dexterity. However if you want magic than like I said a ruby knight vindicator advances both while giving some very handy things to do with your turn undead attempts. If what you are in allows the dragon magazines has a feat called dynamic priest making your spells fully fueled by charisma.

 

[cjosephs1s]

For having a reason to use the tower shield aside from the AC bonus (They get Impact Shield and magic resistance with them, and can bash with Tower Shields)



What? it give a +4 Shield Bonus



dude, Glass Cannon is the complete opposite of Tank, a glass cannon is all Attack no defense, a Tank is all defence.



Ring of Evasion and high Con would help for Ref and Fort, wouldn't it?




it's both maneuvers and the spell, it heals a lot.

I wouldn't take 5 levels of something just for a shield bash manuever and to not take a little damage when the main part of your build has abilities that want you to take damage. If you want to play a tank type then take the damage. Plus with Crusader it helps with Furious Counterstrike. And its not Magic Resisitance that it provides. It provides Cover. Please look up the difference between Spell Resistance and Cover to understand the two.

Yes I realize it gets an AC bonus in 3.5. However in 3.0 it does not.

And if you knew what Glass Cannon was then why did you say you would look into it as a PrC?

A Ring of Evasion does nothing for your Reflex Save. Its in the DMG pg 232. Look it up to see what it does. Then look up the section on reflex saves and look at a 3rd level wizard spell called Fireball so you can see how it works. Yes your Con mod goes directly to helping your fort save as outlined in the fort save rules. Look them up as well in the PHB.

Also read the Cleric Class in the PHB. Heal is a 6 level spell which means you need 11 levels of cleric to gain access to it through the cleric. There is a 9th level manuever in the Crusader class that allows you to make a strike and grant you or an ally the Heal spell. Please read in the PHB how multiclassing works so you will understand you can't have both and that was my point. Then read chapter 8 in the PHB on how combat works. Then read chapter 10 so you know how magic works. Then you will see that under normal circumstances you only get 1 standard action per round which means you can either cast a spell or attack an opponent but not both.

I'll say this a 3rd time. You must read the PHB and DMG to understand the rules of the game. I think this is a main factor in why you aren't understanding the advice we are giving.

 

[Luka]

And its not Magic Resistance that it provides. It provides Cover. Please look up the difference between Spell Resistance and Cover to understand the two.

What I meant with magic resistance is the Shieldmaster's Shield of the Heart, not the cover. And I'm planning on using the Furious counterstrike and Steely resolve, but wouldn't then my character turn into a Glass Cannon if it realied that much in using them withou armor?, pretty much made emphasis on using maneuvers and stances like thicket of blades and stuff.

A Ring of Evasion does nothing for your Reflex Save. Its in the DMG pg 232. Look it up to see what it does. Then look up the section on reflex saves and look at a 3rd level wizard spell called Fireball so you can see how it works.

Just mentioned the Ring of Evasion since Emoplato said it would help.

Also read the Cleric Class in the PHB. Heal is a 6 level spell which means you need 11 levels of cleric to gain access to it through the cleric. There is a 9th level manuever in the Crusader class that allows you to make a strike and grant you or an ally the Heal spell

Oh I though the maneuver only worked on self, and just planned to get the Cleric multiclassing for countering Kiting, not that much for healing.