alright, time for a deep breath...
[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION]
you've raised several points and i'll try to address them to the best i can. i might not have been as clear as i hoped or simply forgot to write some stuff down as my train of thought kept chugging along in my mind so i'll try to tackle what you've brought up.
Why is that a problem? It has a name, an origin, a minor power, perhaps a minor drawback, this all feeds role playing and character development and possibly an adventure plot. Why would that be a problem?
the main problem is that while the fluff engages on a story perspective, gameplay wise it's often forgotten or the mechanics fail to impress at the scope the fluff tries to get at.
case in point: i can give a name and origin to a mundane longsword, but that won't make me actually use it over a generic +1 longsword that has better stats. it just means i probably won't sell the longsword and it'll end up like many modern day swords: decorative pieces.
if all i wanted was character development and plot, i'd simply be freeform roleplaying. i tend to want the fluff and the mechanics to work together to tell the story, not have one be lackluster and hope the other can pull the wool over fast enough.
See, that to me is much more interesting that trying to just sell the trident for a quick buck that is forgotten after the next adventure.
yes, but again, the fact that it was a magic trident didn't matter one lick. we kept it for sentimental purposes but it wasn't used much for anything. it could have been a mundane trident and we would have given it the same amount of respect.
I would say the current playtest package treats them in very interesting ways
and i don't. i'll agree to disagree since this is entirely a matter of taste. i'm not saying it's wrong, and for some playstyles or genres it's great... the items it generates tend to be akin to the more "common" ones (if you can call them common) you'll find littered in The Lord of the Rings. it's just not what i care for when presented with D&D that, for the most part, tends to go beyond the assumed scope of LotR.
It also deals with this issue. You don't get beyond +1, except for a few extremely rare items.
i was speaking in a general sense with D&D as a whole, but 5th ed allows for items of higher +'s. and i'll eat my hat if that won't cause players to be asking for them or chomping at the bits for the next and better magic sword. magic items were supposed to be rare in 2nd ed, but i still remember more then a few +2s and the odd +3. most games died out before we got higher then that, but i'm not so blind to think that players will go "gee, i have a +1, guess there's nothing better for me" or settle.
by making it a slightly better sword then the last one it does somewhat create an air of "if there is a slightly better longsword the the one i have now, there should be one even better then it!"
You're basing all of this on the assumption the weapon is surpassed later by a more powerful weapon. That's not how bounded accuracy works, and it's not how 5e appears to work. There is no +5 weapon. You don't get increasingly more powerful weapons over time.
which still means that i'm going to be throwing my dad's ancestral longsword into my bag of holding for the magical longsword of Fhqwhgads since it has the better stats.
i would say in the realm of bounded accuracy we shouldn't even HAVE to deal with the +1 to begin with as that's a clear deviation of the concept. let the weapon or item change how the game is played, rather then let the players assume an item treadmill.
Right. There is no +2 sword. That's not how this edition seems to be going.
from the document i have (Oct 14 2013) Magic items, page 10:
"Weapons with a bonus higher then 1
A basic magic weapon can have a bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls that is greater then 1, but such a weapon is unusual. Typically a higher bonus appears in magic items such as the rod of lordly might, which has additional properties"
so yes, the game fully accepts the possible existence of such items even if it doesn't stat them... not that there is much difference between a +1 and +2 weapon in terms of what needs modified... it's a +2 to hit and damage. it even gives a similar paragraph under the armor section of page 8.
Again, have you read the 5e rules for magic items such as these? They DO do something outside of a limited scope of detecting. You should read them.
here is where i'm going to start ranting, so i'm going to put it in a spoiler box to keep the post a bit more on topic. anyone should PM me if you want to go more into detail or exchange thoughts as i don't want to off-topic this thread.
[sblock]i guess what i should have made clear is that i prefer my magic items to have an impact on play beyond the superficial trappings of "ooooh... it's magic! see how magic it is... it glooooooows!". i want my magic items to scream "game changer". i want magic items to change how the player or character assesses different situations. a magic item should be a veritable force of nature in the hands of a character.
i grew up reading a big 'ol collection of myth and legends and fantastic stories, where we have swords that hew mountains (caladbolg), scabbards that prevents bleeding/wounding (excalibur's), cloaks/hats/rings/whatnot that grant invisibility (like harry potter's or the tarnkappe), various things that grant immortality (philosopher's stone, apple of hesperides). later i learned of stuff like the amenonuhoko of japanese lore that raised an island or the kusanagi sword that controls the winds when swung.
i want magic items to feel magic in play, not "just like my old sword but slightly better and comes with a built-in flashlight". the items i referenced are all weapons or objects of magic in "real" lore that each have their own backstory and legends behind them, but IMO were they items in a game they would be far more impactful in actual play then simply giving the player a minor boon like "does not get dirty" or "can always know the next staircase leading to the surface" and hoping the player fawns over it. those abilities are a neat afterthought, but again, hardly something i'd fawn over in-game.
the +1 to hit or defense that the "magic" weapons and armor of 5th ed gives out simply doesn't do enough for me thanks to the wild swingy-ness of the d20 when compared to the overall stats the game assumes and does little to nothing to make the item feel "magic" beyond strait up telling me "it's magic"
to use your glaive as an example, unless the name Marian Darksbane was one i had heard about or thought to be relevant to one of our ongoing quests/plots, i probably wouldn't investigate it any further then knowing it's a bit of lore should anyone ask. the spear would, gameplay-wise, simply be a slightly better spear with flashlight attachment. this isn't meant to sound mean or anything, but as a player i can't be interested or invested in every bit of lore or fluff that's thrown at me especially if i'm focused on some other task at hand. I'd probably use the glaive simply because of it's +1 and ability to light up the area, freeing me from ever having to carry a torch again over it's lore and "uniqueness".
that your players found that bit about Darksbane interesting is great and if it led them to further adventures, it served it's purpose and more, but lore does not alone magic make, especially in a game where there are characters who make magic their prime specialization.
because, quite frankly, lore and "uniqueness" is NOT hard to make. i don't
need a random chart to make magic items interesting lore-wise. hell, i don't even need a chart to figure out if there's a magic item in a horde or not. i just don't see how the system presented in the package i have is supposed to be some sort of boon for me as it does nothing i can't do myself, or wouldn't have done anyways.
they're nice to have around if i'm in a rush, but almost never use random charts... most things i show players are very much pre-planned in advance and if anything "presented" as random.
and i get that the story is important... i wouldn't have stayed in some campaigns (or some systems) as long as i did if it weren't for the interesting story and camaraderie between me and my gaming buddies (hell, i haven't game with them for about half a year now and they went out of their way to invite me to go out to eat at our province's yearly
burger love event). but story only carries it so far... it's still a game and the mechanics matter to me, so what the last package i have has shown me when it comes to the magic item rules leave me wanting.
they could have done SO much more with with how they handled magic items: a wide variety of truly magic gear, a better model of the Weapons of Legacy (IE: weapons that grow in scope with the wielder)... items that changed the scope of the game rather then simply giving more +'s. the current "magic" weapons simply feel like they're well-made mundane ones and the various boons like some additional features you could get tacked on to a "real" magic item or cast on a generic thing to make a slightly special, rather then something truly "magic".
but they decided to settle with near-insignificant bonuses and often-forgettable abilities tied to a random fluff generator as the go-to we're going to see in adventure design from now onwards. i've played with mechanically boring "magic" items in 2nd edition, 3rd edition & 4th edition and simply making the bigger +'s rare or campaign-unique DOES NOT actually raise my interest in them or make me value them on some greater level.
the +1 [weapon] is boring. a spear that when swung surrounds the user in a protective dust devil and allows him to fly at the speed of a hurricane's gust? magic.
i guess i make the personal distinction with that
-a +1 sword with a backstory is basically just a well-made weapon made for some important reason.
-a "magic" cloak that never gets dirty is a wonderous item, a neat curio that's uncommon in the wilds or a conversation piece in a metropolitan area.
-the Spear Fujiin is a magic item worthy of awe as whoever uses it becomes a force of nature.
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as for what level, which i seem to have forgotten to put down in my actual post, i would expect one within the first 5-7 levels at least.
admittingly, it also varies based on the overall scope of the campaign, but from what i expect of D&D and it's bretheren, 5-7 is the latest i expect for my first magic item