D&D 5E Dealing with a trouble player and a major blow up

[Inchoroi]

...having read the entire thread...it's time to move on, my friend. You need better friends if they're going to ditch you--given that he literally ditched his girlfriend--then they can go ahead. You'll be happier eventually.

It sounds like there's a lively scene there for D&D where you live. Start a Meetup group,and then start looking on facebook for a better group. Offer to run one-shots for new people. I may not agree with your DMing style, personally, but if its causing so much grief, its really not worth it.

For my purposes, I very much subscribe to the Rule of Awesome school of DMing. That being said, though, the players in my group can try anything they can think up--however, I'll tell them the usual likelihood of it succeeding using colorful euphemisms and then let the dice decide the outcome. If the dice are with them, they'll pull it off. I got lucky in that my group are all long-time DMs and players since 2e (with the exception of my wife, who I taught to play RPGs before we got married). It also helps that they're all well-rounded, mostly sane individuals, I suppose.

It might be that, if you really want to keep the friendship, you should switch games; my group started with Exalted, which is a game where you can kick the world in the baggage and riffle through it's pockets when you want to (not joking; a fairly new character can have the ability to make 12 attacks in a single second). He might be expecting that his character is just that awesome, and should always succeed. D&D isn't anything like that.

Still, though...I admit to being something of a dick, and so I would have told him straight to his face what an ass he is, and then told him that I would never DM for him again. That would be the end of it.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Question: Does this guy pull the same crap on other DMs? In other words, is it that he's just a jerk, or does he have some particular beef with you?

Both. He complains constantly about the difficulty of adventures every time his character gets close to dying or takes a large hit. Though he does it less often when his gf is DMing. My roommate complains about it sometimes but mostly he says he doesn't mind tolerating it when he's DMing. He just ignores him.

But he is especially bad when I DM. When I first met him he rubbed me the wrong way as I mention in a previous post. He said a lot of kinda dumb things and dumb people are kind of my pet peeve. Once someone says something incomprehensibly stupid I tend to view everything they say through that lens. He managed to trigger my stupid meter 5 times a week for 4 months straight. I complained to my friends about it because I didn't know him well and it helped me cope with playing with him again the next week. He didn't know since I never said anything to his face, so everyone got along.

Then, my friend, his gf now, started dating him and told him pretty much everything I had ever said about him. He's held it against me since then so he will assume everything I say is a slight against him.

The answer doesn't matter terribly, I'm just curious. As for what to do: Don't wait on the apology, you ain't gonna get one. Don't let him play in your Adventurer's League games. If he asks why, explain that you don't run games with people who pick fights with the DM and walk out mid-session. If he starts arguing, don't get drawn in. Just say "I'm not going to argue about this. You can play at someone else's table."

My roommate, the other DM at the store with me has volunteered to always have him at his table so I never DM him again.

Also, his gf has volunteered to start running games as of yesterday so that he won't have to play with me DMing either.

As for the non-AL campaign: Are you running it? If so, you're well within your rights to kick the guy out, and it sounds long past time. If not, there isn't much you can do about it except a) put up with him or b) quit the game yourself. (Which is an option to consider. Life is too short to game with people who make you miserable.)

his gf runs it. Though we are doing a thing where I'm running Champions once a month instead of DND. That is supposed to be this Sunday but I think I'm canceling it for this week at least.

He isn't nearly as bad in that Dnd game because his gf runs the game. His character still irritates me because he has absolutely no personality and is a bunch of stats. He often forgets his own character's name because it just doesn't matter to him. But luckily he is so forgettable that I often forget he's there.

 

[JackOfAllTirades]

"You know, I was thinking about that last game at the LGS. I see your point. I should have given more chance to your plan. It was a bit odd and off the wall and I guess I kinda fumbled in handling it. You and your GF were right...I was being an a** that night. I'm sorry. Bad burrito or something. Anyway, if you want to give me another shot I'd love to have you and you GF play in the next home game. If you think I'm not considering something fully, give me your side. I'll let you know of any outside-influences your characters might not know, just so you know where I'm coming from. But on the flip side, please try not to yell. It makes everyone kinda uncomfortable. Deal?"

In my experience, a determined troublemaker will selectively hear all the parts of this "mea culpa" that they want to hear, and conveniently forget the rest. This amounts to begging them to continue their pattern of abuse, if not outright escalate it.

In other words, don't encourage him!

 

[Taronkov]

If you're running a public game at the local shop let the event organizer know what's going on(assuming they somehow missed it). In any of the 3 shops I've played or run games in they wouldn't even allow that player back into the gaming area after multiple blow temper tantrums. Point here is that they have a responsibility and vested interest in creating a non-toxic atmosphere in their shop. So even if you don't want to confront him about it they can. And the original AL packet even tells you to go to them if there is a serious issue.

Personally I'd wash my hands of them and be done. For me RPing is my hobby, my way to unwind and have some fun. If someone else is stopping that either I go or they go. You're running the table so guess which one it would be here?

 

[jgsugden]

Same advice as others for how to deal with them both in D&D and as friends/acquaintances: Lay out the groundwork for how you expect to be treated and how they are expected to behave when they're with you.

If they don't want to do it, find other people to be in your social circle and tell them, "Hey, this isn't working for me. Right now, you're coffee and I'm feeling like soda is as much caffeine as I can handle. You're not enjoying the game I'm running, I'm not enjoying the way the games keep blowing up - let's go our separate paths. If you want to get together to do some board games, some one shot adventuring, grab a drink, etc... I'm totally up for it (you can say this whether it is true or not - it tends to help keep things from seeming too mean), but I want to change the group up."

Then move on. Finding a new group can be a pain, but - just as relationships - being with the right people makes it so much better. If you don't like him, don't be with him... and if the gf wants to be with him and not with you, that is her choice to make.

 

[DMCF]

I think it is pretty lame that she's enabling them. I'd find a new group. It hurts if you've been adventuring with them but think about the adventure you could be having. You're still adventuring right? Lots of people would rather start over at level 1 and have fun than continue to be annoyed at level 12.

Plus you can always bring your character into another game at the appropriate level if your actual character dies. Just don't try to speed level and kill him off. You as a DM should know how annoying that is

 

[iserith]

I would likely say "you know there's no plumbing in this world, right? The guards aren't going to believe that. They might fall for something else though."

Still, I believe that it's the player's responsibility to come up with that "something else". Getting through a challenge like this is 50% player ingenuity and 50% character skill. The player comes up with an idea, which sets the DC for the skill check. Try to convince the guard that you are secretly Elminster and watch the DC rise to 20. Try to convince them that you are a traveling merchant and need shelter and the DC becomes 10.

But I don't assist my players in coming up with the ideas because that's half the fun...seeing what they come up with. Unfortunately, the player in question started playing in 4e and played through too many skill challenges that were run like this: "You need to build a bridge. What do you do?" "My best skill is Arcana. I roll 25." "Ok, you Arcana the wood into a bridge."

Now he expects that when he picks up a die and rolls high that it doesn't matter what his idea is. It works.

Sure, I do things the same way, only I don't always assume a check will be required. (See DMG pgs. 236-237.) The bolded is the extent to which I was referring helping the player come up with another ruse, one that fits the expectations of the setting. I'm not suggesting playing the game for them, just getting on the same page.

But the issue is that there are 4 or 5 other players who have no problem with my style and I feel that changing for one person is just giving in to someone's whining. I don't want to reward that.

Besides, the only way I can see to change my style so that he would enjoy it is to make everything he says succeed all the time or to constantly suggest "correct" answers to the problems I lay before him.

My game would have to go like this:
"You know the bandits wear gray cloaks so you could likely dress in those and infiltrate their camp. I'll assume you bought those cloaks 2 days ago when you were in town when you came up with this plan. You know that the bandits have been hiring new people lately so there will be new recruits for you to blend in with. You know the tensions are high with the kobolds so if a new recruit was to show up and claim to have been attacked by kobolds, you could disrupt the talks. You do that. Give me a Deception check to see if the plan succeeds."

That is not how your game would have to go. It could go otherwise. It might even have gone better than it did.

The player's plan had merit: Engage in a deception to make each side think the other was attacking them. That was the goal. Could it have been better? Sure. Could it have been worse? Sure. Does it have a chance to succeed? Maybe, if the approach is reasonable.

So here was the approach: Toss kobold corpses into the kobold camp, throw rocks at remove into bandit camp and pretend to be kobolds doing the throwing. We can now set the expectation with the players that if they can pull off those two things without a hitch, then their plan will work.

Now it's time for those hitches. During the execution of the approach, we introduce complications that arise to challenge their efforts in a fun way. Wolves are attracted to the kobold corpses being taken uphill to be dropped on the camp and their baying threatens to give away the ruse - what do you do? On the way to drop the rocks on the bandits, a rope ladder on the tree reveals a scout hidden in thick branches who hasn't spotted the party yet - how do you deal with this? And so on. If they overcome those complications, then their plan works. If they do okay with some and not with others, then maybe their plan works at a cost or with an additional complication to overcome. If they do poorly on all the complications, then perhaps their plan fails.

The way you tell it, they executed their plan at which point unforeseen circumstances arose after the fact that they perceived they could do little about. To the players - who you said weren't pleased with certain results (not just the guy who blew up) - this may have looked like failure because the DM simply didn't like their plan. It feels like a big waste of time. That can be very frustrating as I indicated in my initial post in this thread.

Of course, you may be constrained as to what you can do because it's an organized play scenario (or whatever). But I'm just showing you how it could be done in a way that may ease the tension you're seeing. As you can see, I've validated the player's ideas, said that his or her reasonable plan will work if the party can overcome certain complications along the way. I've acknowledged the idea and added to it rather than looked for reasons that it can't work.

Now, none of this may fix the social situation you're in which is no doubt based in some part on a complicated history between you and this player. And I am in no way condoning or making excuses for the player's behavior in this situation. But hopefully it at least gives you some additional tools to try out sometime.

 

[steeldragons]

In my experience, a determined troublemaker will selectively hear all the parts of this "mea culpa" that they want to hear, and conveniently forget the rest. This amounts to begging them to continue their pattern of abuse, if not outright escalate it.

In other words, don't encourage him!

I nearly universally agree with Paul Ming's posts...on just about any topic...but, I have to go with JackofallTirades on this.

Yeah, pming's post is a "nice" way/thing to do...and if you were dealing with a reasonable adult, I could potentially see it working. But this seems to already be 1) a pattern of behavior, 2) personal and 3) inter-personal issues that are not going to [can not] be reasoned with.

Cut him lose. Find new friends, since anyone who would "side with" this jackass is not worth your time. Sucks. But happens. Not every friendship is meant to span one's lifetime. EDIT to add: If they are real/true friends they either a) won't stop being your friend because of him or b) [specifically in the case of the gf, but for any that might distance themselves from you] find a way back into your life when they come to their senses/if they're meant to. /EDIT

Find a new group/new game that you can uenjoy without the aggravation. Been said several times in this thread in different ways, but so true it bears repeating, "Life's too short for bad gaming."

 

[Dausuul]

Majoru's DMing style isn't really the issue here. Some DMs are more freewheeling than others.

Having now read the whole thread, I say: Let it go. (Cue music from "Frozen.") And by that, I do not mean "pretend it never happened." I mean, cut the guy loose and move on. Dwelling on it is only going to give you high blood pressure.

As for your mutual friends, including the girlfriend: Don't trash talk him to them. Don't make a lot of drama about the whole business. If they want to stay friends with you, great. If not, their loss. It's a big world out there and it's more geek-welcoming than it's ever been. Find new people to game with, and to hang with outside gaming.

 

[iserith]

Majoru's DMing style isn't really the issue here. Some DMs are more freewheeling than others.

I think it's at least part of the issue. And really the only issue the OP can reliably control since he or she has no control over other people. In these kinds of situations, I believe a little self-reflection is a good idea.