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CapnZapp

Legend
Continuity of story is kind of the point of a living campaign -- otherwise, you're just playing an in-person MMO with the DM as the server.

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Pauper
I am not really interested in discussing this with you, Pauper, and I am certainly not trying to change your opinion.

I just wanted to alert you to the possibility you might be better served by fixing this yourself instead of expecting AL to change. As amply demonstrated by other posters here in the thread, AL might have to consider other priorities than yours.

Best Regards,
Zapp
 

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rooneg

Adventurer
Why not?

It seems like most of your issues are due to local organization (or the lack of it).

My issues have absolutely nothing to do with local organization. There are multiple local Wednesday night AL games I could be playing in and at least one weekly thing on Saturday. My problem is that my work and family schedule is incompatible with them. As a result, I end up playing the occasional Saturday game day type event combined with various conventions throughout the year. AL allows people in this sort of situation to continue to play. Is it ideal? Of course not, it would be clearly superior if I could play in a regular weekly game, but given the reality that a weekly game isn't going to happen for me in the foreseeable future this is what I've got.
 

rczarnec

Explorer
There's a ton of content out there, and there would still be a ton of content if the first ten Season One modules were retired.

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Pauper

And there will be even more content if none of the seasons are retired. If you do not wish to play that content, then don't play it, but stop trying to dictate what and how others play the game.

Edited because rooneg already responded to the poor organization ridiculousness.
 
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Koren n'Rhys

Explorer
For convention play, that makes some sense -- and the new convention-specific modules AL is trying to promote to add new content specifically to conventions is very much along this style of 'random play'. Even then, though, the convention authors are likely going to include some kind of internal story through their offerings, with the idea that playing the adventures in a given order will be the most enjoyable way to play them. (If you played through the Baldman adventures at Origins or GenCon, you know what I mean.) So even then, there's going to be a preferred 'order of operations' and someone who just decides to 'drop in' is doing himself a disservice. Caveat emptor, I guess.
Well, I've been to GenCon multiple times and seen a huge variety of tables being played. Depending upon my schedule and what else I wanted to do over the course of the con, I fit in games where I could, as I'm sure many others do. We play what fits in our schedule, so it's highly unlikely that will follow the order as written. My local con has a room full of tables too, with content all over the spectrum. DMs are running what they want to, since they have to have fun too, and again, I play what fits in with everything else I want to do. I can play D&D anytime - a con is a chance to play other things too.

I see this a lot -- because transferability of play is a feature of the program, some have elevated it to be the most important feature. It's not, simply because most players never make use of that feature. In fact, as Organized Play has evolved, systems that existed in previous iterations mainly to feature transferability (the 'region' system in Living Greyhawk comes to mind, where certain adventures were only playable in certain regions, and if you wanted to play them, you have to go to that region) have been dropped as being antithetical to the more important goals of Organized Play.
Not saying it's most important at all, but it IS an advertised feature. As such, a player understands that it is not the same as a home campaign and you shouldn't always expect a coherent story, but rather episodic vignettes.

What's the enjoyment in that? Even an MMO tries to ground its dungeons and other quests within the context of a wider world, because that's what makes the adventures meaningful. I mean, what's the point of 'saving the world' if you don't bother even caring what the world is?
What's the fun in it? I get to play when I can, vs not playing at all if I don't have a home group. I can sit down for a couple of hours when I have a chance to, and enjoy roleplaying my character through an adventure. People have lives outside of gaming. Other commitments. Families and their ever-changing schedules, part-time jobs that don't follow a set schedule. There are countless reasons why a player can't play every Wed night, or whenever, and that a DM can't expect to see the same party every week. The fact that you seem to have a set group and have that luxury is fantastic - for you. But don't believe that it's the norm for everyone trying to enjoy AL play.

Again, I don't see a need to retire anything and remove it from a DMs library other than something ending up being irrevocably broken after being played for a while. As others have said, YOU don't need to every play a Season 1 mod again if you don't want to, but I may like dragons and have fond memories of Phlan from my college days playing CRPGs. Those mods look really fun to run and I have players who'd like them to, so why shouldn't we be able to use them still today?
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
I just wanted to alert you to the possibility you might be better served by fixing this yourself instead of expecting AL to change. As amply demonstrated by other posters here in the thread, AL might have to consider other priorities than yours.

Not a problem, but I find it ironic that you suggest the AL should consider other priorities, when that's exactly my point -- the AL should consider *it's own priorities first*, which goes back to all the points I made in the initial comment about why it's a good idea to retire old adventures.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Of course not, it would be clearly superior if I could play in a regular weekly game, but given the reality that a weekly game isn't going to happen for me in the foreseeable future this is what I've got.

That makes sense, and it's a good reason why you as a player should probably be less devoted to the idea of getting a consistent story across your play sessions.

I'm confused as to why you want to deprive other players who can commit to regular play sessions that sense of continuity and story they'd likely enjoy, if it wasn't for the need to cater to players with more irregular schedules. Shouldn't the League focus on the players who are most dedicated and leave more casual players to approach league play as best they can?

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Pauper
 

rooneg

Adventurer
That makes sense, and it's a good reason why you as a player should probably be less devoted to the idea of getting a consistent story across your play sessions.

I'm confused as to why you want to deprive other players who can commit to regular play sessions that sense of continuity and story they'd likely enjoy, if it wasn't for the need to cater to players with more irregular schedules. Shouldn't the League focus on the players who are most dedicated and leave more casual players to approach league play as best they can?

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Pauper

Who's depriving anyone of a sense of continuity? I'm saying that the level of continuity in the published adventures is fine as it is. There's no reason to take further action (such as removing earlier seasons from play, etc) to improve the sense of continuity because if the continuity matters to a particular group they can already get it by simply playing the various adventures in order within a particular season.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
We play what fits in our schedule, so it's highly unlikely that will follow the order as written. My local con has a room full of tables too, with content all over the spectrum.

Very true. I also suspect that, if you took a good look at your con schedule, you'd find that -- say the con is running a three-part series -- the first mod in that series is heavily scheduled on the first day, the second mod is heavily scheduled on the second day, and the third is heavily scheduled on the third day. This is simply out of recognition that most players want to approach content in the order that the designers developed it for maximal story appreciation, and that allowing other 'orderings' is a concession to the realities of convention play, not the preferred mode of convention play.

Not saying it's most important at all, but it IS an advertised feature. As such, a player understands that it is not the same as a home campaign and you shouldn't always expect a coherent story, but rather episodic vignettes.

Absolutely disagree. Players may be willing to accept that, given their circumstances (like rooneg's above), they may not be able to enjoy the full story experience, but given the option, many players will prefer to get both the moment-to-moment play experience and the enjoyment of being in an over-arching serial story.

Look at movies -- I wouldn't say people are going to Marvel movies to get 'episodic vignettes', but to get stories that both stand on their own as stories, but that also feed into a larger overall narrative and build the world that all the characters 'live' in. To say you like that in movies but don't want it in your D&D seems weird to me.

The fact that you seem to have a set group and have that luxury is fantastic - for you. But don't believe that it's the norm for everyone trying to enjoy AL play.

I don't see it as a luxury -- I see it as the default setting for AL play. WotC would likely know better than I do, because they actually take surveys and ask their customers these things, but everything I've heard from WotC folks is that most AL players do participate in regular AL games. They're just not required to do so on Wednesday's anymore, since WotC freed up the old Encounters program to run on any day that works for a local group.

As others have said, YOU don't need to every play a Season 1 mod again if you don't want to, but I may like dragons and have fond memories of Phlan from my college days playing CRPGs. Those mods look really fun to run and I have players who'd like them to, so why shouldn't we be able to use them still today?

Here's the thing -- if you have fond memories of Phlan and want to play through the old Season One mods out of a sense of nostalgia, you can do that, even if the adventure is retired from official AL play. The only thing you couldn't do is run the adventure for AL rewards.

And that's the reason to retire the adventures. People who want to play the adventures 'for fun' can play them whenever they want. But if you're going to argue that the main reason to play an AL adventure is for the rewards, then you're really not playing it out of nostalgia or any other 'fun' than the progression of the AL campaign.

Play the old adventures whenever you want. At some point, though, it becomes incumbent on the campaign to retire old adventures to remove them from the 'official' campaign. It doesn't have to happen tomorrow, but eventually it will happen.

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Pauper
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
At this point, we've officially hijacked this thread, so anybody who isn't in Zapp's boat and does want to continue this conversation regarding adventure retirement should do so in a new thread.

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Pauper
 

rooneg

Adventurer
At some point, though, it becomes incumbent on the campaign to retire old adventures to remove them from the 'official' campaign. It doesn't have to happen tomorrow, but eventually it will happen.

Why? What precisely does it hurt to have these adventures legal for play until the end of the 5e version of the Adventurers League? I could see an argument if there was some sort of broken strong magical item, or they gave out too much XP/Treasure/Whatever, but even then you can just errata them or something if it's a huge deal. If it's not, then what problem are they causing by remaining legal? Reducing the number of legal adventures for no good reason doesn't seem reasonable to me, and nobody has articulated a good reason as far as I can tell.
 

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