D&D 4E A gathering of Martial Controllers - what do you think

[AbdulAlhazred]

one might actually argue that having any attack that only delivers hit point damage, them impairment free wounds seem wierd, feels like it isnt inducing an injury at all....

But I would expect wounds would mostly impair you in a general sense, causing limited function of limbs, perhaps interfering with motion, vision, coordination, communications, etc. Those COULD to some extent be equated with various conditions, but I'd think in a more general and less fixed way. I'd also think that ongoing damage (IE you're just going to keep bleeding and eventually you're going to wind down to non-functionality) would be a big effect, and not one that would just end in a dozen seconds like 'save ends' or whatnot. Likewise for other effects, you aren't going to just start moving well again 6 seconds after I popped an arrow in your kneecap.

So, maybe overall some of these effects are fine. I don't really think there's anything terrible about how archery works (and melee would mostly have similar objections, though a larger and more random variety of wound/effect types seems likely there). Its basically a little gamist and that's OK.

One thing I have done with HoML, there are degrees of success/failure, so you can play with variations of effects a bit more within powers (though it means that the results are somewhat random, design your powers consistently and its not a big issue). So the basic at-will "shoot my bow and hurt people" power may actually, assuming you roll well, produce a slowing effect, momentarily.

Also I tend to have the encounter/daily type powers have longer-lasting effects, but a little less availability. So you can jam an arrow in a guy's knee and slow him, he's NOT going to just pull it out 6 seconds later and go back to moving like it never happened.

 

[Garthanos]

But I would expect wounds would mostly impair you in a general sense, causing limited function of limbs, perhaps interfering with motion, vision, coordination, communications, etc.

Heroic exertion over comes the initial impact it is very much a trope, and the temporariness could easily be seen as the impact of a burst of adrenaline. But having no effect at all its like hit points are ONLY luck have fun selling that.

Now I was asserting that martial ought to cause long term effects too... because that was realistic (fairly certain "I" do not really want realism)

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Heroic exertion over comes the initial impact it is very much a trope, and the temporariness could easily be seen as the impact of a burst of adrenaline. But having no effect at all its like hit points are ONLY luck have fun selling that.

Now I was asserting that martial ought to cause long term effects too... because that was realistic (fairly certain "I" do not really want realism)

Yeah, I'm not too wedded to 'realism' either, whatever that means. I'm a bit more concerned with 'narrative coherency' though, which means something like you can explain things in narrative terms and build some sort of map from mechanics to narrative and back again so that players can make some predictions based on the narrative about what the mechanical effects of something will be.

 

[Tony Vargas]

one might actually argue that having any attack that only delivers hit point damage, them impairment free wounds seem wierd, feels like it isnt inducing an injury at all....

Sure. Much of the time, with high-hp individuals of PC races, it makes sense that it wouldn't be inducing an actual injury, anyway.

 

[Garthanos]

** space reserved **

Here goes...


Fighter (Battlemaster)

CLASS TRAITS

Role: Controller
Power Source: Martial
Key Abilities: STR/DEX, WIS/CHA

Armor Proficiencies: armor through Scale, light & heavy shields
Weapon Proficiencies: All simple & martial. Choice of one Superior.
Bonus to Defense: +1 REF, +1 WILL

Hit points @ 1st level: 12 + CON score
Hit points per level: 5
Healing surges/day: 7 + CON mod

Trained Skills: Choose 4: Athletics, Bluff, Endurance, History, Insight, Intimidate, Perception, Streetwise.

Class Features: Weapon Talent, Battlemaster Fighter Stances, Fighter Exploits, Special Technique, Grandmastery

Level 1
WEAPON TALENTS
choose one

Heavy Draw: When you use a ranged weapon to make a basic attack or use a martial attack power, you can use STR instead of DEX for attack and damage. When you use a martial power that normally requires a light blade or off-hand weapon to use, you may substitute a quarterstaff, spear, pole-arm, spiked chain, or double-weapon and use STR instead of DEX for attack and damage.

Weapon Finesse: When you use a light blade, off-hand weapon, spiked chain, double-weapon, or heavy thrown eapon to make a basic attack or use a martial attack power, you can use DEX instead of STR for attack and damage.


Level 1
BATTLEMASTER FIGHTER STANCES
Choose two of the following powers:


Fending Stance
You swing your weapon in long, broad arcs, assuring that no one can approach you safely.
At-Will * Martial, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must be using a pole-arm or other weapon with reach
Effect: The reach you gain from your weapon becomes Threatening Reach. When you use a Close or Area martial weapon power that targets 'enemies you can see,' you can choose to target 'all creatures,' instead.

Whirlwind Stance
You spin and thrust your weapon with increadible speed, striking every enemy you can reach.
At-Will * Martial, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must be using a pole-arm or other weapon with reach
Effect: When you use a Close burst 1 or Close blast 1 Martial Attack power, use the reach of your weapon to determine the size of the burst or blast.

Anchor the Formation
You bring allies together to face the enemy as one.
At-Will * Martial, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must be adjacent to at least one ally.
Effect: You and up to one ally per point of CHA mod who together form a legal 'Wall' AE are counted as part of your 'formation.' When you use a Close burst or Close blast martial power, you can change it to a Wall with a length of 2 squares plus the number of allies in your formation. The ally(ies) in you formation must meet the Requirements to use the power.


Volley Fire
Coordinating fire, you and your allies create a deadly beaten zone downrange.
At-Will * Martial, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must be using a ranged weapon.
Effect: You and up to one ally per point of CHA mod who together form a legal 'Wall' AE are counted as part of your 'formation.' When you use a martial Area attack power, you can change it to a Wall with a length of 2 squares plus the number of allies in your formation. The ally(ies) in you formation must meet the Requirements to use the power.

Balance of Terror
You are an object of terror on the battlefied.
At-Will * Martial, Stance, Fear
Minor Action Personal
Requirement: You must have at least one other martial power with the Fear or Rattling keywords.
Effect: When you use a martial power that forces movement, you can also push any targets moved by the power a number of squares equal to your CHA mod. When you use a martial power that has the Rattling or Fear key word, the condition imposed by that power becomes (save ends).

Vicious Assault
You know when to twist the blade, and how to press the advantage.
At-Will * Martial, Stance
Minor Action Personal
Effect: When you use a martial power that imposes a condition on an enemy until the start or end of your (or the enemy's) next turn, the power gains an after-effect: the same condition (save ends). When you use a power that normally imposes a save ends condition, the first save takes a penalty equal to your CHA mod, and the power gains an after effect: the same condition (end of the enemy's next turn).

Guile & Subterfuge
You deceive, inveigle and obfuscate until the enemy crumbles in confusion.
At-Will * Martial, Stance, Charm
Minor Action Personal
Effect: When you use a power that pushes, pulls or slides, you can slide one target a number of squares equal to your CHA mod. When you use a martial power that imposes the dazed, stunned or dominated conditions, the condition gains an after effect: dazed until the end of the target's next turn.



Level 1
FIGHTER EXPLOITS

You gain exploits as a Fighter of your level.


Levels 8, 18, 28
SPECIAL TRAINING

You may retrain one of your existing exploits with a level, replacing it with a martial exploit of the same or lower level and same type (utility, encounter attack, daily attack or at-will attack). If you later retrain such an exploit, you must replace it with either a Fighter exploit, or an exploit of the same class.

NEW FIGHTER EXPLOITS



Spinning Halberd Fighter 1
You spin your weapon around, attacking with both ends. No one is safe./i]
Requirement: You must be using a spear or a pole-arm
At-Will
Standard Close Burst 1
Targets: Enemies in burst you can see
Attack: STR vs AC
Hit: 1[W] - the number of enemies hit, minimum 1.



Spring Attack (fighter attack 1)
You lunge and recover so quickly your enemy has no chance to get inside the reach of your spear.
At-will, Martial, Weapon
Standard Melee Weapon
Target: one enemy
Effect: before you attack, if you have not yet moved this round, you can shift 1.
Attack: STR vs AC
Hit: 1[W]+STR
Effect: after the attack, if you have already used your move action this round, you shift 1.


Iron Javelin (fighter attack 1)
Your javelin punches through the target's shield and bends, making his movements awkward until he can remove it.
At-will, Martial, Weapon
Standard Range Weapon
special: you must use a thrown weapon
Target: one enemy
Attack: STR vs REF
Hit: target is slowed until the end of your next turn. Make a secondary attack against the same target.
Secondary Attack: STR vs AC
Hit: 1[W]+STR


** more to come **

I see a More to Come on this.. and I am considering putting a space in Martial Power III for it

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I see a More to Come on this.. and I am considering putting a space in Martial Power III for it

Sounds like basically a 4e-ized version of the 5e fighter, in some respects at least....

 

[Garthanos]

Rogue (Swashbuckler)

CLASS TRAITS

Role: Controller
Power Source: Martial
Key Abilities: DEX, CHA

Armor Proficiencies: Cloth, leather.
Weapon Proficiencies: Dagger, hand crossbow, short sword, shortbow, shuriken, sling.
Bonus to Defense: +1 REF, +1 WILL

Hit points @ 1st level: 12 + CON score
Hit points per level: 5
Healing surges/day: 7 + CON mod

Trained Skills: Stealth, Insight. From the class skills list below, choose 4 more trained skills at 1st level.
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Bluff (Cha), Dungeoneering (Wis), Insight (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Streetwise (Cha), Thievery (Dex).

Class features: Rogue Exploits, Weapon Finesse, Rogue's Tricks, Surprise Attack, Secret Thrust

Rogue Exploits: Gain Encounter and Daily Exploits as a Rogue (Scoundrel) of your level.

Weapon Finesse Rogue Feature
When you use a ranged weapon, light blade or off-hand weapon, to make a basic attack or a martial power that normally uses STR for attack and damage, you can substitute DEX, instead. .

Rogue's Tricks: Choose two of the following at-will Tricks (or choose from the Thief's list)

Flourish Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Move up to your speed. Make a Bluff check against the passive insight of one creature you provoke an OA from in the course of this movement. If the check succeeds, the OA automatically misses, and you have combat advantage against that creature until the end of your turn.

Sidestep Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Shift 1 square on your turn. If an enemy moves adjacent to you before the start of your next turn, shift 1 and slide the enemy into the square you vacate, then take an OA against that enemy.

Balance Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: You gain a climb speed equal to your speed-2 until the end of your turn and move up half your speed. If you are on a surface above an enemy at the end of this movement, you gain Combat Advantage against that enemy. At the end of your turn, you can again move up to half your speed, and must end it in a square that does not require a climb speed to remain in, or you will fall.

Wild Swing Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: You can shift 1 square. Any close martial power that you use before the start of your next turn that normally targets enemies instead targets all creatures in the area, and after the attack is resolved, you can shift into one of the squares in it's area.

Hornet's Nest Trick Rogue Utility
At-Will Martial
Move Action Personal
Effect: Until the end of your turn, if you make a ranged basic attack or a martial attack using a ranged weapon, you can choose to make the attack a burst 1 within the weapon's short range, instead. If the attack power you are using is already a close or area attack, it's area is increased by 1 instead of become a burst 1. You must expend at least one piece of ammunition per square of the burst (9 for a burst 1) or per creature targeted by the attack, whichever is greater.


Surprise Attack Rogue Feature
When you hit an enemy that you have Combat Advantage against with a basic attack or power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following in addition to other effects:
* You slide the target up to 2 squares.
* The target falls prone.
* The target is slowed (save ends).
* Make a basic attack as a minor action against one other enemy whom you have not hit on the same turn. If you hit, you inflict only DEX mod damage, but, if you have combat advantage, may apply a Surprise Attack effect.

Secret Thrust Rogue Feature
When you use a daily or encounter attack power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following extra benefits to conditions imposed on enemy(ies) targeted by the attack against whom you had combat advantage when you resolved the attack:
* If the attack imposes a condition until the end of your next turn, it gains an after-effect: the same condition (save ends)
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: slowed -> immobilized -> restrained
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: unable to take OA -> dazed -> stunned
Special: You cannot gain the same extra benefit from using a Secret Thrust again until after the current encounter ends.

This too

 

[Garthanos]

Sounds like basically a 4e-ized version of the 5e fighter, in some respects at least....

Gadzooks no jinxing...

 

[Garthanos]

I was thinking that a fighter having a class feature that enabled light armor akin to the Poised Defender from the Berserker where you gain 2 armor when not wearing heavy armor. It could be a build option like the Warlord archer one. AND a fighter specific feat to recover the heavy armor armor proficiencies or gain the Poised Defender ability.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I was thinking that a fighter having a class feature that enabled light armor akin to the Poised Defender from the Berserker where you gain 2 armor when not wearing heavy armor. It could be a build option like the Warlord archer one. AND a fighter specific feat to recover the heavy armor armor proficiency or gain the Poise Defender ability.

Do you need it? Hide is really a pretty good choice for a PHB1 Weapon Master set up to wield a light blade and shield (STR/DEX build). I mean, yes, it might widen the applicability somewhat, but then again it might actually make Scale armor obsolete! lol.