CapnZapp
Legend
That is a grossly slanted misrepresentation of the complaints.D&D is broken because I can't go shopping!
That is a grossly slanted misrepresentation of the complaints.D&D is broken because I can't go shopping!
And then they tell you they don't want that, but they still want the gold to matter. Which is what this thread is about. It's not about you as the DM has to come up with prices for baronies and such, nor for not using the published adventures as... Well, published.Ok.
Stuff breaks aka ammo. You are making your archers refill the ammo. And spell components cost. Add in replacement costs for every thing. Every level above 5th you have replace or repair at 1/2 your gear.
Prices float. In Cleric ville potions of healing are half price. In the deep woods of Alabama a healing potion is 500. The price list is just a starting point for dms.
Or you could do what I used to do on adventures/modules. First read thru drop 1/3 of the magic. Second read thru start dropping duplicate magic items. Let see morrus is the only archer so drop the bow. Cut treasure in half on the first read through. Etc.
Then talk with your players. You know occasionally they do wake up and answer you. Do they want to become a baron? Land owner? Own a keep? If yes then talk to them about what a reasonable gp cost for those are. You also have a plot line for up coming games.
Did "Spoon Boy" from The Matrix take up DMing?Doing so is much easier than trying to hand out treasure according to the rules, only because you fear to break the game balance. There is no balance. Accept it.
So... question. An assassin needs money for their poisons, and a wizard for their spellbook.
Forget magic items for a tic. What else is there to spend money on? Mounts, strongholds, hirelings.... What else is there?
That is a grossly slanted misrepresentation of the complaints.
Putting the bizarre economics of D&D in the DM's hands is really unfair. Unless you're some kind of economics expert, ironing out how much stuff should cost and how much money you should be earning by adventuring is a Herculean labor.
Now characters generally start out with armor 1-2 AC points less than the best non-magic armor. If you wear heavy armor, your first upgrade is (admittedly away from book) something like 400-500 gp. The second is, what, 1500 gp?
This isn't magic, this is something the system expects you to buy. It's a literal milestone for characters. But let's think about this. So if every Fighter is intended to wear plate...he has to earn 1500 gp.
Wait a minute. Let's look at lifestyle costs. You can live like a Trump on what, 10 gold a month? 120 gp a year (assuming 12-month years in a campaign). 1500 gp is enough money for you and 12 of your friends to live that way for a year (or you can live like a boss hog for 12 years).
Who is selling plate armor? Who is making it? Who is buying it? How can this stuff exist in every major city so every Fighter can snag it before leaving Tier 1?
Worse, how can this stuff, which is only 2 AC above the armor every Fighter can start with for free, be so expensive? How does one justify that? That's not even getting into all the armor monsters have (which is of course, cannot be used or sold)...take a closer look at what monsters get equipped with, and when they start showing up with various expensive armors.
Plate armor that costs 1500 gp and is also readily available means that one suit sold is enough to let you live comfortably for decades- a given smith only has to crank out a few of these in his lifetime. But there's apparently a huge market for the stuff, which means there are either a lot of smiths trying to win the "sell 3 suits of plate armor" lottery, or there's a legion of 4th level Fighter types who have the money to buy it...
Where is this money coming from? How has the economy not crashed to the point that buying a dagger requires you to spend 1000 gp or something equally ridiculous?
And then you have the problem of +1 armor. Why, it costs 500 gp, regardless of what armor type it is. Adamantine Full Plate? 500 gp...hold on a minute!
Sure you could say "well you shouldn't be buying and selling magic items in the first place" but armor made out of adamantine isn't really magic...it's just armor made out of rare materials...but then again, how much should +1 armor cost?
500 gp more than regular armor? Seems dubious, since AC 17 heavy armor is like 450 gp and AC 18 armor is three times that....for only 500 more that would be a steal...
And this is just armor, go look at your PHB equipment list and really start asking how many elephant vendors there could really be. It's a mess, there's no real logic involved in how much anything costs, any prices quoted are just...arbitrarily set.
Fixing all of this and making a game world seem remotely logical is a huge task for anyone, and if professional game designers won't do it, who can reasonably ask a DM to?
What case is that and what are those third-party systems besides Sane Magical Prices?I prefer 'succinct summary'. I think WotC made a pretty good case for why there isn't a comprehensive and extensive mercantile system associated with the base game. There are plenty of folks who have put forth third-party systems for valuation systems.
Please shut the hell up with the lazy DM BS and stop suggesting money sinks. Instead, read this article http://theangrygm.com/nothing-here-but-worthless-gold/ and then come back with some advice that's actually within scope of this thread! Hint: it's not about taxes, tithes, castles, baronies, orphanages, sewer construction or anything else people keep spewing out as 'solutions'. Thank you.The argument, "I can't spend my money! Gold is useless!" is symptomatic of lazy gaming, IMHO. There's always a use for money and it's up to everyone, players and DMs, to say how they use, store and protect their wealth. Do the clerics tithe? Does anyone invest in mercantile endeavors? How about taxation for the king who is waging yet another war and is in need of coin? Apparently no one has a family they can assist. Etc.
It's still a lot of work and something that WotC should have taken care of for us.
Hmmm.... now, there's a number of things about the Angry GM's rants. He's very defensive and, well, angry. Though, he does make a few good points.Please shut the hell up with the lazy DM BS and stop suggesting money sinks. Instead, read this article http://theangrygm.com/nothing-here-but-worthless-gold/ and then come back with some advice that's actually within scope of this thread! Hint: it's not about taxes, tithes, castles, baronies, orphanages, sewer construction or anything else people keep spewing out as 'solutions'. Thank you.