Exempting Races from the +1 rule

[CapnZapp]

The PHB+1 rule was created in anticipation of broken combos. The fact there aren't any yet doesn't make for a good argument to drop the rule.

(At least I'm not aware of any combos the PHB+1 saves the AL from. In fact I could argue all the items of the "worst" combos are found in the PHB alone. But none of that matters here, so I won't)

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[Runny]

The PHB+1 rule was created in anticipation of broken combos. The fact there aren't any yet doesn't make for a good argument to drop the rule.

(At least I'm not aware of any combos the PHB+1 saves the AL from. In fact I could argue all the items of the "worst" combos are found in the PHB alone. But none of that matters here, so I won't)

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I think we all agree with keeping the PHB + 1 rule. We are saying that races should be an exception. There is precedent for this, as backgrounds are all allowed. So far it’s clear to me from reading this thread that the role playing benefits of allowing all races out weigh the benefits of restricting races to PHB + 1.

Do AL admins wish to chime in? Do any of them read this forum?


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[Keravath]

I think we all agree with keeping the PHB + 1 rule. We are saying that races should be an exception. There is precedent for this, as backgrounds are all allowed. So far it’s clear to me from reading this thread that the role playing benefits of allowing all races out weigh the benefits of restricting races to PHB + 1.

Do AL admins wish to chime in? Do any of them read this forum?


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I don't think backgrounds are a good example of an "exception" since custom backgrounds have always been AL legal.

Custom backgrounds choose 2 skills and either 2 languages/1 language+ 1 tool/ 2 tools and a quirk (criminal connection, wsyfinder, etc). With a custom background (which is in the PHB) you can reproduce any of the fluff backgrounds included in the source material .. so essentially every background is already on the PHB since you could make it up yourself.

On the other hand, race modifications are specific to the source material AND have a direct impact on character stats and abilities.

Although I agree with you that the likely impact at this time of allowing any race is probably small .. I haven't gone through looking for possible issues which may or may not exist. I also can't comment on any future source material.

As a result, I like the rule the way it stands right now.

 

[Runny]

I don't think backgrounds are a good example of an "exception" since custom backgrounds have always been AL legal.

Custom backgrounds choose 2 skills and either 2 languages/1 language+ 1 tool/ 2 tools and a quirk (criminal connection, wsyfinder, etc). With a custom background (which is in the PHB) you can reproduce any of the fluff backgrounds included in the source material .. so essentially every background is already on the PHB since you could make it up yourself.

On the other hand, race modifications are specific to the source material AND have a direct impact on character stats and abilities.

Although I agree with you that the likely impact at this time of allowing any race is probably small .. I haven't gone through looking for possible issues which may or may not exist. I also can't comment on any future source material.

As a result, I like the rule the way it stands right now.

Hmmmmm... why do you like the rule as it stands? You have a right to your opinion, I’d just like to examine them closer. It seems that you agree that no current race combos are over powered. There are only so many after all, and no one has come up with a broken combo. Your main concern seems to be with future races; however, those of us in favor of exempting race from PHB + 1 advocate that all future races be moderate enough in power that they are backwards and forwards compatible. This is entirely consistent with all published races thus far, and is simply an intelligent constraint to place on future race designs. The core chassis of DnD 5e lies in the class, not in the race. The main augmentors of power are spells and feats. This is why the most powerful race is vuman... it comes with a free feat. This is why future races need to carefully choose racial spells for balance considerations. WoTC already does a great job of this. It is not too much to ask that they keep it up.


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[CapnZapp]

I think all he's saying is that backgrounds aren't really an exception.

So there are no exceptions to the PHB+1 rule.

And being fine with that is not an unreasonable stance to take.

That is all.

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[KahlessNestor]

I think we all agree with keeping the PHB + 1 rule. We are saying that races should be an exception. There is precedent for this, as backgrounds are all allowed. So far it’s clear to me from reading this thread that the role playing benefits of allowing all races out weigh the benefits of restricting races to PHB + 1.

Do AL admins wish to chime in? Do any of them read this forum?


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Admins have already weighed in and spoken. The rule isn't going to change because it can't be changed because WOTC said si, as it's a core design philosophy of 5e.

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[kalani]

The reason backgrounds are allowed is due to the fact that the "Customize Backgrounds" rule exists in the PHB.

In AL, this rule allows you to choose any two skills; a combination of two tools/languages; any background feature (from any existing background - you can't design your own); and any equipment package (again from an existing background). Your starting wealth is Modest.

You can also customize existing backgrounds using the same rule.

In previous seasons, you could not choose an equipment package/background feature from outside your Story Origin, but you could still create a custom background using the above (my stickied Customizing Starting Gear article covers this and has yet to be updated with the changes). When the AL game switched over to PHB+1, it was decided that since books are no longer tracked by story origin, and there is instead a flat PHB+1 there were issues regarding backgrounds which come from published adventures (eg. Hoard of the Dragon Queen or Curse of Strahd), and those from the online articles. Since adventures/online articles NEVER count as a players PHB+1, they decided to exempt the backgrounds from the PHB+1 rule.

 

[Runny]

I think all he's saying is that backgrounds aren't really an exception.

So there are no exceptions to the PHB+1 rule.

And being fine with that is not an unreasonable stance to take.

That is all.

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I think the reasonableness of the stance depends on your role. If you are an AL player or DM, then it’s fine to say, “I’m fine with the rule as it stands.” If you are WoTC or an AL admin, I do not think that is an acceptable stance. It is incumbent upon rule-makers to consider feedback from their customers and make exceptions where they make sense. The AL admins should consider this discussion as feedback and carefully weigh the pros and cons of amending the PHB + 1 to exclude races.

Since no one has been able to articulate an actual harm from allowing all races, and several people have said that the game is less fun when cool race/class combos like Aasimar Celestial Warlocks are not AL legal, a fun maximizing decision maker would amend the rule.


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[skerritthegreen]

Admins have already weighed in and spoken. The rule isn't going to change because it can't be changed because WOTC said si, as it's a core design philosophy of 5e.
[/URL]

Correct.

Greg Marks
DDAL Associate Resource Manager

 

[skerritthegreen]

I think the reasonableness of the stance depends on your role. If you are an AL player or DM, then it’s fine to say, “I’m fine with the rule as it stands.” If you are WoTC or an AL admin, I do not think that is an acceptable stance. It is incumbent upon rule-makers to consider feedback from their customers and make exceptions where they make sense. The AL admins should consider this discussion as feedback and carefully weigh the pros and cons of amending the PHB + 1 to exclude races.

Since no one has been able to articulate an actual harm from allowing all races, and several people have said that the game is less fun when cool race/class combos like Aasimar Celestial Warlocks are not AL legal, a fun maximizing decision maker would amend the rule.


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Actually the reasons for it were articulated several pages ago, its just some people said "I don't believe your reasons, so they don't matter." That said, the Admins have heard your feedback and note that in general, this forum excepted perhaps, the overwhelming feedback we get is that the PHB+1 rule is good and should be kept as is. Given that the rule is handed down from WOTC anyway, if you want change, this is a situation where contacting Customer Service may be your best bet.