Gritty Campaigns. How you play one?

jgsugden

Legend
Mechanics for a gritty campaign are fine to consider, but you can do gritty with no rule changes at all ... You want a feel to your game. That feel come from the storytelling, not the mechanics. A story about a high school girl struggling with a part time job, getting through school, and dealing with friend and family drama... can be a gritty Veronica Mars story, or it can be Saved by the Bell. It is all about how you tell and flavor the story.

Grit often goes hand in in hand with a noir feel.

Gritty is all about realistic pain and consequences. You can have magic, but it can't just solve all your problems. It should have the opposite effect: Causing problems. In the 'real world' gritty stories, characters often have access to money. Money is power in those stories. But the money makes life worse. Others want it. Others want to mke the heroes use their power for their purposes. People manipulate to get it. Other people condemn the heroes of the tale for not using their power the 'right way'. Someone else always has more power.

I see a lot of talk about paying attention to the nuances and details - tracking water, food, encumberance, ammunition, spell components.... Be careful. This can get tedious. You want the feel of grit without actually inflicting the pain of grit on your players. Any mechanics that slow down your game should be considered carefully. The most important element of a great gritty tale is a good flow to the story.

To that end, when I go grit I look for:

* Small victories for the heroes are common, but those with real power are rarely truly beaten. Often, the heroes victory is a darned if you do or don't situation... they're choosing the lesser of two evils and the bad guys in the shadows benefit either way.

* People without power come to the heroes for help, but they often want what the heroes can't provide by themsleves. The heroes need to obtain what is needed and it always comes with a cost. When the heroes provide the assistance, it may not actually leave their clients with a better situation. Instead, those people may twist that assistance for foul ends - vengeance, greed, etc... That get them killed... or worse.

* Things more powerful than the PCs should be around, but not combat foes for the PCs. They should be foils, masterminds and threats... but not someone the PCs will hit with weapons. The heroes should ideally have something that barely keeps these forces in check... something fragile. Something these threats want to eliminate.

* Don't be afraid to break up the tension with the occasional delve into a dungeon. Let the PCs be distracted by a good old delve into a forgotten ruin... only to find that something bad took place while they were gone. Moments of light followed by pain are part of the noir feel that underlies most gritty stories.

Or, you know, just have a game on the Elemental Plane of Earth. Grit.
 

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Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
You have to be sure that you've got your foundations down. And what is the foundation of a gritty campaign?

Corn. Yup that's right, corn.

So your campaign needs the proper climate for corn to be the predominant crop. You should also give thoughts to protein availability (since corn is inferior to wheat in this regards), as well as social factor - is it poor people food, or a dish fit for the king?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grits
 

the Jester

Legend
  • Let the dice fall where they may.
  • Don't intervene to save pcs who die.
  • Monsters fight to win instead of fighting to die.
  • This includes hitting downed pcs when appropriate.
  • If you want a map of the dungeon, map; otherwise, prepare to die lost.
  • Force the players to rely on their notes and memories rather than filling in gaps in their knowledge that they wouldn't reasonably remember.
  • Use 'left' and 'right' instead of cardinal directions unless someone has the Keen Mind feat.
  • No npcs who can save your bacon. If you want to raise a dead pc, find a pc to do it.
  • Enemies should be proactive and take measures to defeat their foes, including pcs.
  • Challenges should vary in nature ("I'm perfectly prepared to fight monsters, but this snow storm is killing me!")
 

pming

Legend
Hiya!

Welcome to the boards!

Yes, welcome! It's a pretty...er... "old" group of folks on these boards (not quite Dragonsfoot.org old, but still, I think the average age is in the 30's iirc a poll done a year or so ago). So we may seem a bit ornery every now and then...but overall, we're a good group.

(ok, maybe I'm speaking mostly for myself; I can get quite ornery...often... ;) ).

I played 1e as my preferred edition from 1981 to 2012 when 5e playtest came out, and I've played WFRP 1e, so I guess you could say gritty D&D is more my preference. Here's what we do when we want a more gritty version:

* house rule healing. Do not heal to full HP after long rests. You get HD back, but that's it.
* DM emphasizes the suck in a narrative fashion: For example, in Tomb of A, go into detail about how much the jungle sucks. Bugs, heat, sweat causing rashes under armor, clothes rotting, exhaustion, illness, unable to sleep, etc
* encumbrance is very important. Armor and weapons weigh a lot. So does gold.
* tracking spell components matters
* magic is limited. No magic shops. Magic wielding NPCs are very rare.

All of these I guess. I say I guess because this is my normal game...my gritty game is...less forgiving. :devil: With regards to Spell Components, I did find that for 5e, letting the player decide if he wants to go with a "spell component pouch" (focus, I guess it's called in the game now), he can....BUT...if his PC actually has the required listed spell component that would otherwise be covered in the "spell component pouch" (e.g., "a bit of sap and a piece of goose down"), the PC can increase/vary an aspect of the spell. So he could double the Range or Area of Effect, or do at least 'average' damage on a dice roll (e.g., 5d6 would count 1-3's as 4's; so, 20-30 as a total, not 5 to 30), that sort of thing.

The other thing I do for a more 'gritty' game is arbitrarily decide specific "wounds" as needed. If a PC is climbing a cliff to get a way from a giant, and the giant hurls a boulder at him and gets near max damage, I'll describe the PC taking damage and that he has a broken leg...so Disadvantage on the rest of the climb if he doesn't make an Athletics (STR) check to hold on to the cliff in the first place. This isn't done all the time...only when I feel the scene is particularly "dramatically appropriate". And yes, this goes for NPC's and Monsters too. Descriptions of how painful something is, is one thing, but bringing in a game-mechanic hindrance because of it makes it "gritty".

Optional things we sometimes do:
* critical hits against the PCs have a lasting effect until healed. For example, if PC A suffers a cirtical hit from a crocodile, then narratively I'll describe how the croc locks onto the PC's leg and begins to death roll. The PC's movement is reduced by half until healed. Nothing major or directly representing the real life effects one would have by going through that, but something still impactful.
* play AiME, or the very least steal the shadow point system from it (Adventures in Middle Earth is the 5e version of Middle Earth)

Uh, yeah, I should have finished reading Sacrosanct's post before mentioning my "specific wounds" thing...

I don't know what this AiME shadow-point system thing is...but if Sacrosanct thinks it's good for a gritty feel, I'm adapting it! (what can I say?...we seem to have generally the same sort of "style" for playing D&D).

One thing he didn't mention, however, is Wealth. One of the things that keeps a gritty game feeling gritty is lack of wealth. I would half, and reduce coin type by one for any treasure found/recovered/paid. So if the dice call for 23gp, 120sp and 200cp, it's now 12sp, 60cp and that's it. Prices in the book remain the same, however.

The Equipment Damage idea I use as well, but I use my own system. I call it the "CPAGMEL" ("See PAG MEL"). It stands for a list of Quality Level's ("QL"), with the lowest being "Crap", then "Poor", "Average", "Good", "Master", "Exquisite", and "Legendary". Each one has a cost multiplier for purchasing, as well as a suggested modifier/effect penalty or bonus (Average is, obviously, average...no change in other words). When the PC's are moving through a jungle, and don't have the opportunity and/or equipment to maintain certain items, those items get reduced in QL. In a jungle, for example, metal, paper, cloth and leather would get reduced after a certain lack of care is reached (probably a day for paper; maybe two or three for cloth; another day for leather, a day after that metal). Items reduced to "Crap" quality can not be repaired. Everything else can be, with a skilled enough craftsman, enough time, and of course enough money to pay him.

Oh, just thought of another thing: Light. Keeping track of equipment usage (arrows, torches, food, etc) is very important...and light especially so. If you are deep in a labyrinth of caves and dungeons, and suddenly find yourself without light...things get bad instantly. Keep the setting DARK! Don't have the PC's 'randomly find' a couple flasks of oil, don't have a corridor on the 8th level of the dungeon have torches on the wall every 20', etc. If it goes dark for the PC's, it will be bad. Even for those with Darkvision. Those with Darkvision can see, sure, but now they have to help their 'blind' companions navigate, let alone fight or do something like jump a pit/crevass. Darkenss and shadows really bring home the "dangerous, alien, and unforgiving" aspect of, well, everything...even a cloudy night with a half-moon will be rather terrifying if you know you are being hunted by a pack of goblins.

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

GlassJaw

Hero
Great thread. This is a subject near and dead to my heart and there are a lot of great suggestions here.

For me, it always comes down to the level of magic and availability of magic. Tinkering with spellcasting can quickly go down the rabbit hole of completely reinventing the caster classes so you really have to nail down what you want the feel of your campaign to be.

In order of house rule complexity:

1. No changes at all: Spellcasters are rare and extremely mistrusted, perhaps even hunted. In this case, spellcasters are "handled" through the background of the campaign and role-playing.

2. Remove spells: The easiest mechanical change. Specific spells are entirely unavailable. The usual suspects are teleport (and maybe dimension door and misty step) and raise dead. This can be expanded into divinations, flashy evocation, and spells that easily overcome resource management (create food & water, goodbeery, and even healing).

3. Ban certain caster classes. Banning specific classes can set the tone and backdrop of the campaign. Perhaps all magic must be learned from ancient texts. Therefore the only caster class allowed is wizard and players must multiclass into it. Or perhaps spellcasting is only granted by evil entities. In this case, Warlock is the only caster class, and any known warlock is hunted down.

Full caster classes can also be removed so the level of magic stays at a lower level.

4. Custom caster classes. This is the trickiest but allows for the spellcasting to be custom tailored to your campaign world.
 

Tony Vargas

Legend
Great thread. This is a subject near and dead to my heart and there are a lot of great suggestions here.

For me, it always comes down to the level of magic and availability of magic. Tinkering with spellcasting can quickly go down the rabbit hole of completely reinventing the caster classes so you really have to nail down what you want the feel of your campaign to be.
Agreed. You can't work much grittiness into a campaign by making your highly abstract hps come back more slowly, if the pious guy can still make you boo-boos vanish with an systematically-renewable spell resource (whether it takes him a day or a week to re-charge it doesn't really matter to feel, only to pacing - if you have to complete a mission before dawn, you're not going to take a long rest, anyway even if they're 'only' 8hrs, if you have 6 months to get somewhere, you'll be taking any number of them even if they're a week).

In particular, 'gritty healing' that makes healing take even /longer/ than recovering spells, as was the case in the classic game, removes any sense of grit at all, as magic becomes the de-facto exclusive means of healing.

In order of house rule complexity:

1. No changes at all: Spellcasters are rare and extremely mistrusted, perhaps even hunted. In this case, spellcasters are "handled" through the background of the campaign and role-playing.

2. Remove spells: The easiest mechanical change. Specific spells are entirely unavailable. The usual suspects are teleport (and maybe dimension door and misty step) and raise dead. This can be expanded into divinations, flashy evocation, and spells that easily overcome resource management (create food & water, goodbeery, and even healing).

3. Ban certain caster classes. Banning specific classes can set the tone and backdrop of the campaign. Perhaps all magic must be learned from ancient texts. Therefore the only caster class allowed is wizard and players must multiclass into it. Or perhaps spellcasting is only granted by evil entities. In this case, Warlock is the only caster class, and any known warlock is hunted down.

Full caster classes can also be removed so the level of magic stays at a lower level.

4. Custom caster classes. This is the trickiest but allows for the spellcasting to be custom tailored to your campaign world.

1. Is pretty horrible, really. You have a gritty world, but with the caster-PC party tromping through it like CoDzilla, even if they just have a Ranger or EK or something, because the enemy just isn't prepared to deal with magic.

2. You might have to remove a lot of spells, and you might get a lot of whining from players who would normally play the casters impacted, but it could get you there...

3. Better and actually simpler than trimming spell lists extensively. Limiting arcane to Warlocks, divine to Paladins, and nature-magic to Rangers, for instance, will give you a somewhat grittier would, in which the most powerful magic is quite sinister. It would help to tweak the warlock to give that sinister quality some teeth, though.

4. What I've been seriously considering the next time I want to run an S&S feel 5e game. Replace or re-design the caster classes with new ones that pay a very high price (insanity, transformation, possession - for the lucky/prudent ones, mere death) for their magic.
 

GlassJaw

Hero
Agreed. You can't work much grittiness into a campaign by making your highly abstract hps come back more slowly, if the pious guy can still make you boo-boos vanish with an systematically-renewable spell resource (whether it takes him a day or a week to re-charge it doesn't really matter to feel, only to pacing - if you have to complete a mission before dawn, you're not going to take a long rest, anyway even if they're 'only' 8hrs, if you have 6 months to get somewhere, you'll be taking any number of them even if they're a week).

Generally, I agree. You may be overstating things a bit but I certainly agree in philosophy. If nothing else, having healing spells (and other spells that quickly wash away the "grit") can break the immersion of a gritty setting. You can argue that having to use a spell slot for healing is a significant penalty I guess.

That said, if you dial back the availability of healing magic, I do believe it has to be replaced with something. I would like to see other mundane healing options, such as making the Medicine skill more useful or crafting options that include minor "potions". If players are turning a resource other than spell slots into healing, I'm ok with that.

2. You might have to remove a lot of spells, and you might get a lot of whining from players who would normally play the casters impacted, but it could get you there...

Well that's what the session 0 is for. I certainly wouldn't spring this type of campaign on a group where everyone wasn't fully invested. I also don't think it would involve as many spells as you think (but I concede that is subjective).

3. Better and actually simpler than trimming spell lists extensively. Limiting arcane to Warlocks, divine to Paladins, and nature-magic to Rangers, for instance, will give you a somewhat grittier would, in which the most powerful magic is quite sinister. It would help to tweak the warlock to give that sinister quality some teeth, though.

I am starting to like this idea. It does create some balance issues (the Warlock potentially becoming to caster of choice) and removes some archetypes (like the bard) but those issues don't feel insurmountable. Heck, I am even open up the half-casters and allow a player to choose different spell lists (like an Eldritch Knight using the bard spell list).

4. What I've been seriously considering the next time I want to run an S&S feel 5e game. Replace or re-design the caster classes with new ones that pay a very high price (insanity, transformation, possession - for the lucky/prudent ones, mere death) for their magic.

If you've done any work on this, I would definitely like to see it!
 

Psikerlord#

Explorer
Gritty and default 5e are polar opposites. In order to make 5e gritty, you have to change so many things, you aren't playing 5e anymore. Better to simply use a system that is gritty to begin with imo. WFRP 4e might be the ticket.
 

My current 3.5 pirate campaign has a certain amount of grit to it. I describe wounds in detail, the players track all their resources, and weather plays a very important role. When the players find themselves at sea during a storm, things get scary. I describe the effects of the weather on their ship and their characters in detail. And then once they venture into icy regions, they have all the hazards of sub-zero temperatures to deal with. It helps to also play scary music to really put the fear into them.

This does not mean that there's no room for levity. But I try to mix it up.
 
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GlassJaw

Hero
Gritty and default 5e are polar opposites. In order to make 5e gritty, you have to change so many things, you aren't playing 5e anymore. Better to simply use a system that is gritty to begin with imo. WFRP 4e might be the ticket.

Well we can agree to disagree. It's also fairly short-sighted to say "you aren't playing 5e anymore". 5e certainly isn't the ideal system for G&G but you can get close with some simple changes.

That said, I would ask that you start a new thread if you want to debate whether 5e is a viable system to use for a G&G campaign.
 

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