Ridding D&D of All Races - Multiple Choice Poll

What races should we get rid of, for REASONS? (May choose more than one)

  • Dragonborn

    Votes: 67 40.4%
  • Dwarf

    Votes: 11 6.6%
  • Elf

    Votes: 14 8.4%
  • Gnome

    Votes: 32 19.3%
  • Half-Elf

    Votes: 34 20.5%
  • Half-Orc

    Votes: 34 20.5%
  • Halfling

    Votes: 25 15.1%
  • Human

    Votes: 17 10.2%
  • Tiefling

    Votes: 60 36.1%
  • Monstrous Races (Orc, Goblin, etc.)

    Votes: 51 30.7%
  • Any optional race not listed above

    Votes: 47 28.3%
  • Other - I will explain in the comments

    Votes: 15 9.0%
  • I like the exact number of races we have.

    Votes: 9 5.4%
  • We shouldn't eliminate races- WE SHOULD ADD MORE!

    Votes: 48 28.9%
  • Are we not men? WE ARE DEVO!

    Votes: 21 12.7%

  • Poll closed .

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
But, again, they're not connected to treants. Or wood woads. Or myconids. Or vegepygmies. Or dryads. Or tendriculos. Or volodni. Or twig blights. Or any of the other existing plant monsters.
Instead of enriching the existing lore and making an existing part of the world deeper the wilden are just slapped on. They're just there.
IIRC, they originally didn't even mention primal spirits in their write-up.


Primal spirits, nature as a semi-sentient Force with a Will, doesn’t matter the specifics, they are presented as the manifestation of nature’s will. They’re spirit creatures given physical form.

The creatures you mention are all very specific in terms of how they behave and what they want. They’d require a major overhaul to be a suitable player race.

No thanks. I’d rather have a new race, and one that isn’t just “Wood woads with player stats”.
 

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Prakriti

Hi, I'm a Mindflayer, but don't let that worry you
Humans ✔️
Dwarves ✔️
Elves ✔️
Halflings ✔️
Dragonborn ...?

🎶 One of these things is not like the others.
One of these things does not belong.
🎶

(Dragonborn aren't a playable race, they're a playable species. All the other core races are at least mammals...)
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I asked how many? Apparently you only believe there is one. Of just bipedal I count over a dozen already in that space.

No they don't and they aren't even close to the only player race that fits that space. Just for a start how about Mountain Dwarves (not to be too obvious). In fact Goliaths are little more than big mountain dwarves.

Try harder, I am sure you will eventually figure it out.

Yep that seems to be exactly the case. From reading your posts in this thread I am now more convinced than ever. :)

Of course you’re more convinced, you’d already concluded before you looked.

The presentation in past editions isn’t relevant. It was a rhetorical question. Mountain Dwarves don’t live in the peaks, aren’t adapted to extreme altitudes, aren’t big, athletic burly people, don’t live in nomadic tribes, aren’t super into competition and fair play, and have just as many defining traits as those I just listed that Goliaths don’t have. They’re nothing alike, with “living in the mountians” being literally the only commonality that isn’t just common to all manner of player races, like bing vaguely tough.

Theres Goliaths, and giants. Only one of which is playable. Sure, maybe there are some other monsters like trolls or ogres or whatever in mountains, but none that have any traction in the community live in the high mountain, much less the literal peaks, and vanishingly few are viable PCs.

But the fact you think that anyone who disagrees with you is disinterested in world building is amusing in a cringey sorta way.
 

Primal spirits, nature as a semi-sentient Force with a Will, doesn’t matter the specifics, they are presented as the manifestation of nature’s will. They’re spirit creatures given physical form.
I know what they are. I just don’t think they were mentioned in the wilden in PHB3...

The creatures you mention are all very specific in terms of how they behave and what they want. They’d require a major overhaul to be a suitable player race.
It takes roughly the same amount of lore to add details to an existing race to make them a PC as it does to make an entirely new race.

No thanks. I’d rather have a new race, and one that isn’t just “Wood woads with player stats”.
The stats would be the same either way.
The difference is a race that actually has a place in the world and isn’t poorly slapped on like an afterthought.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RememberTheNewGuy
 

MechaPilot

Explorer
Humans ✔️
Dwarves ✔️
Elves ✔️
Halflings ✔️
Dragonborn ...?

🎶 One of these things is not like the others.
One of these things does not belong.
🎶

(Dragonborn aren't a playable race, they're a playable species. All the other core races are at least mammals...)

So Badgerborn would be a race? Because . . . the brotherhood of mammals . . . I guess? The same thing for intelligent animals?
 

jmartkdr

First Post
If something's too strong half the time and too weak the other half, it's in balance none of the time.

OTOH, this isn't enough by itself to condemn the race - the total build, maybe, but the race is probably only a small part of that.
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I know what they are. I just don’t think they were mentioned in the wilden in PHB3...
I wasn’t trying to tell you what the Primal spirits are. I was noting that the wilden are written as a manifestation of nature itself. The details of whether the writeup mentioned primal spirits or not is irrelevant.

However, I do remember their lore including specific primal spirits, whether that was in the first writeup or not.

It takes roughly the same amount of lore to add details to an existing race to make them a PC as it does to make an entirely new race.
not at all the point I was making. Making wood woads or myconids PC races would require changing them, not just adding to them.

The stats would be the same either way.
The difference is a race that actually has a place in the world and isn’t poorly slapped on like an afterthought.
I don’t care what the stats are. This reads like you literally just saw the word “stats”, assumed what I was talking about, and responded to that.

I said that I’d rather have a new race, thematically, than a rebuilt existing monster race, and even if we were getting treants and myconids and wood woads, I’d still want wilden included as well, because they’re substabtially different from them. They aren’t even plant people.

They’re wild spirit people who can take on aspects of nature and the seasons. There is no other player race like them, and being new doesn’t mean they’re “slapped on”.
 

I wasn’t trying to tell you what the Primal spirits are. I was noting that the wilden are written as a manifestation of nature itself. The details of whether the writeup mentioned primal spirits or not is irrelevant.

However, I do remember their lore including specific primal spirits, whether that was in the first writeup or not.
Maybe they were expanded in a Dragon article. (Or a forum post...)

not at all the point I was making. Making wood woads or myconids PC races would require changing them, not just adding to them.
Worked just fine for orcs and hobgoblins and goblins and drow.
And humans really. Since NPCs don't use the same statblocks and PCs. There's no reason a PC version has to be identical to the monster.

Heck, even in 4e they also did a dryad racial write-up. That would work just fine in 5e.

I don’t care what the stats are. This reads like you literally just saw the word “stats”, assumed what I was talking about, and responded to that.

I said that I’d rather have a new race, thematically, than a rebuilt existing monster race, and even if we were getting treants and myconids and wood woads, I’d still want wilden included as well, because they’re substabtially different from them. They aren’t even plant people.

They’re wild spirit people who can take on aspects of nature and the seasons. There is no other player race like them, and being new doesn’t mean they’re “slapped on”.
I'm just not a fan of some brand new race that has no history in the 30 years of D&D just appearing and everyone having to pretend that they were totally there all along and are relevant to the history of the world.
There's plenty of interesting potential PC races from the previous forty years of D&D that haven't been updated along with interesting mythological beings that could be made into PC races without having to invent something whole-cloth. Odds are any "new" race won't be nearly as interesting or evocative or memorable as something people have enjoyed and seen again and again, or have been telling stories about for a thousand years.

(It's bad enough with the grung and the tortles, who no one has really cared about in 20 years, but at least they have some legacy aspects. Or the firbolgs who might as well have been a new race given how much they were altered.)

Now, as you say, being "new" doesn't make them "slapped on". That's true. Not being tied to anything else in the game is what makes them "slapped on". They're not an integral or connected race. The game and setting doesn't suffer for their absence. They don't fill a hole in the lore or niche. (As you say, they're not even *really* a plant race, just being one of several fey people.)
With the wilden they didn't even pretend to make them part of the history, having them recently appeared in the world. Suddenly there was all these plant people running around. Like in a MMO following an expansion where a new race is added, and suddenly the demographics of the world shift overnight. They couldn't even be bothered to justify a backstory for them or work them into the lore and just handwaved something about the Far Realm triggering a reaction in the Feywild causing Wilden to emerge. Why now and not sometime in the previous 100,000 years? Because reasons.
Which makes about as much sense as them having two genders. (But then 4e slapped breasts onto dragon-folk and a living crystals so a plant-fey creature shouldn't be any different.)

Yeah, I'm sure they have some fans. But so did the illumians and raptorans in 3e. But not everything in past editions needs to be updated.
And the content that is updated can typically be improved. Made more relevant and connected. Reimagined.
 

Wiseblood

Adventurer
I voted for every race to be eliminated except humans. Most of the lore and characterization of the other become a noxious mess. Then they invent a new race to fill a niche that is already filled or nonexistent. Afterward they get retconned and shoehorned into existence in various settings. (Making the entire setting objectively worse)

I do my best to not think about all the garbage that gets added. It’s like trying to have a picnic in an alpine meadow right next to a rotting sheep carcass.

The insipid lore about humans is easy to ignore since I am a human and interact with them on a daily basis.

I wouldn’t mind adding some races back in with new lore and artwork. Perhaps in a brand new setting. One with a little more finesse and a little less....whatever compelled dragonboobs or egg headed elves or Medium sized Giants (in urban tiger stripe camo)
 

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