The Mechanical Impact of -5/+10

[TwoSix]

Now, if you change it to -X/+X instead of -X/+2X, the range of AC which would result in lower effective damage grows to AC 18 to AC 24 for this character. Any AC below 18 or above 24 would result in better effective damage by accepting the -3 to attack rolls for +3 to damage. But, at least that is 7 values of AC where the tactic is no longer beneficial instead of three values for AC.

Yea, but that's not really my intent. I want to bring other weapon types up to the damage of a standard GWM/SS user, not bring GWM/SS users down. (Although phasing the damage boost in as -prof/+2*prof instead of -5/+10 is a slight nerf to GWM/SS at mid level ranges, which is OK.) If my rule change isn't a net boost to weapon users in general, it isn't really doing what I want it to do.

 

[FrogReaver]

On breaking the game

I think that something that breaks the game makes the game not function properly. I don’t think the game functions properly with the -5/+10 feats. The impact isn’t so much that the game becomes unplayable but it does cause things to happen that Surely weren’t intended IMO. To me that means the feat is causing the game to not function properly.

If you take “break the game” to be something so bad that the game becomes unplayable or nearly so then I’m not even sure Capn Zapp would agree there

 

[FrogReaver]

Yea, but that's not really my intent. I want to bring other weapon types up to the damage of a standard GWM/SS user, not bring GWM/SS users down. (Although phasing the damage boost in as -prof/+2*prof instead of -5/+10 is a slight nerf to GWM/SS at mid level ranges, which is OK.) If my rule change isn't a net boost to weapon users in general, it isn't really doing what I want it to do.

I don’t want to do that because I don’t think a fighter doing adaquate damage should rely on having a feat

 

[TwoSix]

I don’t want to do that because I don’t think a fighter doing adaquate damage should rely on having a feat

My proposed change was to allow all weapon attacks to sacrifice proficiency bonus to attack to add double proficiency bonus to damage as a base rule. No feat or fighting style required.

 

[Mistwell]

On breaking the game

I think that something that breaks the game makes the game not function properly. I don’t think the game functions properly with the -5/+10 feats. The impact isn’t so much that the game becomes unplayable but it does cause things to happen that Surely weren’t intended IMO. To me that means the feat is causing the game to not function properly.

If you take “break the game” to be something so bad that the game becomes unplayable or nearly so then I’m not even sure Capn Zapp would agree there

We'll never know because he will never answer. And curiously almost never mentions anything that happens in games he plays in almost any thread he posts to.

 

[TwoSix]

We'll never know because he will never answer. And curiously almost never mentions anything that happens in games he plays in almost any thread he posts to.

Say again? I don't really feel the dsire to involve myself in your and Zapp's animosity, but I know I've posted in threads where he's asked specific questions about games he's running. He had a long thread about how to customize the final boss battle in ToA to challenge his players, just as an example.

 

[FrogReaver]

We'll never know because he will never answer. And curiously almost never mentions anything that happens in games he plays in almost any thread he posts to.

Maybe. Maybe it would be more helpful if you explained your stance on what I said about breaking the game. Do you agree with my assessment?

 

[Mistwell]

Maybe. Maybe it would be more helpful if you explained your stance on what I said about breaking the game. Do you agree with my assessment?

I asked to find out what Capn means by frequently claiming his game breaks and that WOTC is to be held responsible due to horrible lazy rules which broke his game. I am not sure my comment is applicable to your views on it or not, as you are pretty up front with folks about what you mean. Noteworthy, the OP didn't specifically ask you to refrain from posting your previously-stated-many-times views on this followed by you posting your views over and over again here without any willingness to engage with questions or requests for clarifications about your views.

There is a reason I am asking Capn about this. I know what you mean by break, but I genuinely don't know what Capn means, and he won't tell us, but we're sure to hear it again and again. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask what he means. Do you?

 

[Mistwell]

Say again? I don't really feel the dsire to involve myself in your and Zapp's animosity, but I know I've posted in threads where he's asked specific questions about games he's running. He had a long thread about how to customize the final boss battle in ToA to challenge his players, just as an example.

I am happy to be corrected. I have not seen those threads myself. In the past when I've asked him for specific examples, he doesn't reply. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Yea, but that's not really my intent. I want to bring other weapon types up to the damage of a standard GWM/SS user, not bring GWM/SS users down. (Although phasing the damage boost in as -prof/+2*prof instead of -5/+10 is a slight nerf to GWM/SS at mid level ranges, which is OK.) If my rule change isn't a net boost to weapon users in general, it isn't really doing what I want it to do.

No problem, I just wanted to make certain you were aware of the potential impact. The cost for the ability "as is" is the feat purchase, but by making it a general rule, you are going to increase the chances of it happening a lot. Players will realize even accepting a -1 penalty for +2 damage is beneficial nearly all the time (this ultimately does depend on average damage as well but is generally true).

For instance, even at level 1, assuming a +4 attack bonus (2 prof, 2 ability), the character is better off in the long run accepting a -2 attack for +4 damage on any AC of 19 or less (nearly all of the targets likely in Tier 1) if their average base damage is 8 or lower (typical).

Anyway, if it works for you that's cool.