Jester David
Hero
Just pointing out that a “DPR” rogue that just boosts damage is like a “tank fighter” that just boosts AC or a controller wizard that stuns without saving throws. It does the job but imbalances the game.Normally, I respect your opinion on the game. In this case, “I’m disinterested in the point of this thread” is better stated by not posting in the thread.
Removing the skills to boost damage is a imbalanced trade. You’re giving up exploration powers for more combat power. Powers shouldn’t cross pillars. You wouldn’t trade a ribbon power for more combat.[MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] btw, the assassin is still a mostly exploration and interaction focused subclass. The point with the subclasses is to have 1 or more option for the rogue that adds nothing to those pillars beyond what’s in the base class. The assassin does not do that much damage in most sessions, it certainly isn’t reliable. In doing comparable damage to other damage focused options. A rogue that gives up some skill monkeying to reach the top tier in combat efficacy isn’t unreasonable.
Trading features you don’t want for feature that boost your combat power didn’t work well in 3e or 4e or Pathfinder. Plus it leads to a pretty one-trick-pony character where the PC ceases to be effective between combat. Which also leads to disruptive action as the player is incentivized to initiate combat because that’s the only time they get to be effective. (A lack of out-of-combat features is already a weak aspect of the fighter.)
But let’s dig into the design.
The problem with this is it causes multiclassing problems. One of the reasons barbarians don’t use Dexterity is to prevent rogue/ barbarians and pairing rage and sneak attack. This works against that. To say nothing of the ridiculousness of “sneak attacking” with a greataxe.There is room, here, for a strength rogue.
- Expanded weapon list that works with Sneak Attack, including glaive, longsword, any one handed weapon or versatile weapon.
- Your attacks that qualify for Sneak Attack deal extra damage equal to your Strength mod.
- Once per short rest, you can deal Sneak Attack damage a second time per turn.
- Level 9, gain Extra Attack
- 13th, add Str mod as a bonus on all Dex checks and saves? too much for 13? 13 tends to be more utility, rather than power.
- 17th, gotta be big. SA on every attack for 1 minute, 1/rest? Auto-crit 1/rest? Max SA damage when you crit? Expanded Crit Range?
It also leads to “fun” combos, like Greatweapon Master and Polearm Master. PM alone would cause a potential spike in sneak attack damage.
Also, rogue subclasses only really grant combat bonuses at 3 and 17. In all subclasses, 9 and 13 are exploration or interaction features. They’re utility powers. So getting combat bonuses there goes against established design.
This feels like a swashbuckler that just has its powers renamed.Alternatively, what about a swordsman subclass that is about ruthless efficacy rather than flair and panache?
I’d also be reluctant to add Maneuver dice to another subclass. WotC stopped adding those to fighter subclasses because feedback overwhelming said people preferred those to just be a battlemaster “thing”.
- Maneuver dice, or expanded crit range and extra dice on crits?
- Maneuver dice are pretty obvious in what they'd do, but also....meh. play a dex battlemaster with the skilled feat? We don't need direct overlap here, I don't think.
Okay, design wise the assassin has the niche on spikes or extra damage. Every other combat or so it can get an auto-critical, which is a big damage spike with sneak attack. But that’s story dependant and unreliable. Which is why so many rogues go with two-weapon fighting: reliable damage by doubling the chances of landing one hit.
If I were designing a rogue class with the express purpose of boosting DPR, I’d focus less on spikes and more on reliable damage. Rerolling attacks and maybe even rerolling sneak attack damage. Perhaps applying Expertise to attack rolls.
Maybe a dagger wielding rogue that can hurl an offhand dagger as part of the Attack action. The extra d4s add a little damage, but not much but the advantage is the extra chance to deal sneak attack damage.