Wheel of Time Discussion - Spoilers(with book spoilers)

[Demetrios1453]

Yeah. I thought the same thing. It just wasn't as big as the other points for me.

Speaking of minor issues with the show. Adding Uno to the heroes of the Tide bottle was premature. In the books he did a whole lot of things that caused Birgitte to tell him that it was a possibility. In the show not so much. All he really did to distinguish himself was die in a different way than most.

Rafe has confirmed that Uno was Gaidal Cain reborn.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I really enjoyed the scene where Matt blew the Tide Bottle of Valere to summon the heroes. All in all I liked this season better than the last, even though they changed a huge number of events.

I think the only major disappointment from me was that Rand and Ishamael didn't fight in the sky over Falme. I was really looking forward to seeing that. Oh, and when Perrin killed Bornhald's father, rather than being mistaken for causing his death. I didn't like that part at all.

Eh, I was nervously worried how they could do the battle in the sky without it looking embarrassingly cheesy. I think they made the right decision there.

I don't mind Perrin killing Geoffram. Even though Dain was wrong in thinking that in the books, Perrin still did kill some Whitecloaks after Hopper died. It makes Dain far more justified in his vendetta.

 

[Maxperson]

Eh, I was nervously worried how they could do the battle in the sky without it looking embarrassingly cheesy. I think they made the right decision there.

Maybe, but I think they could have done it well. We'll never know.

I don't mind Perrin killing Geoffram. Even though Dain was wrong in thinking that in the books, Perrin still did kill some Whitecloaks after Hopper died. It makes Dain far more justified in his vendetta.

And that's the entire problem! Perrin is supposed to be a very good individual. There was not supposed to be any justification for what was supposed to be a mistake.

And Perrin is already wanted by the Whitecloaks from season 1 when he and Egwene were captured. They didn't need more justification for Whitecloak hatred.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Eh, I was nervously worried how they could do the battle in the sky without it looking embarrassingly cheesy. I think they made the right decision there.

I agree. It would have looked a) silly, and b) like a Marvel show.

In addition, it showed that the dragon was only invincible with his friends. Which I think is narratively better than "this character is so much more powerful than everyone else that all the other characters are irrelevant". Don't care what the book says, the only objective here is to make an entertaining TV show, not a slavish adaptation of a deeply flawed and overlong novel series.

I don't mind Perrin killing Geoffram. Even though Dain was wrong in thinking that in the books, Perrin still did kill some Whitecloaks after Hopper died. It makes Dain far more justified in his vendetta.

Same applies here. It made sense within the context of the TV show. It doesn't matter if the characters are not identical to the characters in the book.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yeah. They could have a small scene next season where Matt is like, "Did you see me!? I fought with Birgitte Silverbow(flash to Birgitte) and Artur Hawkwing(flash to Artur) and Famous Amos(flash to Amos) and Mrs. Fields!(flash to Mrs. Fields), etc.

It would only slow down the narrative. In the context of the TV show it doesn't matter who those people were. It's just an info dump of irrelevant information.

What they did do is take a leaf from the MMO playbook, and gave them "high level" gear and fighting styles. i.e. "Show, don't tell".

 

[Maxperson]

I agree. It would have looked a) silly, and b) like a Marvel show.

In addition, it showed that the dragon was only invincible with his friends. Which I think is narratively better than "this character is so much more powerful than everyone else that all the other characters are irrelevant". Don't care what the book says, the only objective here is to make an entertaining TV show, not a slavish adaptation of a deeply flawed and overlong novel series.

Same applies here. It made sense within the context of the TV show. It doesn't matter if the characters are not identical to the characters in the book.

This isn't a disagreement overall, but rather with the depiction of the books. Everything would have failed without Matt. Everything would have failed without Perrin. Everything would have failed without Egwene. Everything would have failed without Nynaeve(sp). Everything would have failed without Elayne. The other characters were FAR from irrelevant in the books, even if Rand was much more powerful. Rand needed all of them to do their individual parts in order for him to be able to do his.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

This isn't a disagreement overall, but rather with the depiction of the books. Everything would have failed without Matt. Everything would have failed without Perrin. Everything would have failed without Egwene. Everything would have failed without Nynaeve(sp). Everything would have failed without Elayne. The other characters were FAR from irrelevant in the books, even if Rand was much more powerful. Rand needed all of them to do their individual parts in order for him to be able to do his.

Which might be easier to make clear in a novel than in a TV show. It's often necessary to simplify the narrative for the screen.

 

[TheSword]

The conversation earlier got me thinking. Two series down and there are a few issues that I think haven’t been clearly established.

• Being a make Channeller means madness and a wasting disease leading irrevocably to death (and probably killing a lot of innocent people around you)
• The Dark One is bound with the Forsaken in Shayol Ghul by the Creator
• The last battle… or the fact that the horn of Valere is needed in order to win it.
• Who the Seanchan actually are.
• Who Elaine actually is and why she is important.
• Who the Aiel are and the Aiel War.
• The breaking of the world - who did it and why.

All these things seem to me to be pretty crucial elements that were bedded in really early in the books (with the exception of the Seanchan). It means that a lot of the elements don’t really carry much weight or things that are important seem incidental. My concern is that later elements that are really momentous won’t actually matter much because things leading up to them haven’t been established early enough.

“‘What do you mean the source was tainted, Why’s that? Who’s the Dark One?”

There’s a real risk that it just ends up as Young-Folks-With-Powers like every other fantasy TV series. Without any of the cost that sets Wheel of Time aside.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There’s a real risk that it just ends up as Young-Folks-With-Powers like every other fantasy TV series. Without any of the cost that sets Wheel of Time aside.

There is a risk of Marvelisation in this show, especially with it's initial "all the main characters have superpowers" set up. But I think the program makers are actively trying to avoid this.

It helps that the main characters don't seem all that young any more!

 

[Bolares]

The conversation earlier got me thinking. Two series down and there are a few issues that I think haven’t been clearly established.

• Being a make Channeller means madness and a wasting disease leading irrevocably to death (and probably killing a lot of innocent people around you)
• The Dark One is bound with the Forsaken in Shayol Ghul by the Creator
• The last battle… or the fact that the horn of Valere is needed in order to win it.
• Who the Seanchan actually are.
• Who Elaine actually is and why she is important.
• Who the Aiel are and the Aiel War.
• The breaking of the world - who did it and why.

All these things seem to me to be pretty crucial elements that were bedded in really early in the books (with the exception of the Seanchan). It means that a lot of the elements don’t really carry much weight or things that are important seem incidental. My concern is that later elements that are really momentous won’t actually matter much because things leading up to them haven’t been established early enough.

“‘What do you mean the source was tainted, Why’s that? Who’s the Dark One?”

There’s a real risk that it just ends up as Young-Folks-With-Powers like every other fantasy TV series. Without any of the cost that sets Wheel of Time aside.

1 - I got pretty clearly that you go mad and die if you are a male channeler.
2 - Didn't know the place, but got that the dark one is bound.
3 - They say the hor is needed to win the last battle.
4 - I don't know how similar they are form the book, but from the show I get that they are a foreign nation with radically different beliefs and culture.
5 - Elayne is a princess form a really important nation.
6 - The aiel remind me a lot of the Fremen in Dune, and the Aiel war is basically them comming to kill one guy (a king if I remember) and then leaving.
7 - The Dragon broke the world, I think that was stabilished really early in season one.