Fiendish Codex II next month--Any scoop/rumors/etc.?

Aus_Snow · Nov 10, 2006

Uh, d00d. Much as I'd love (?) to go another round here, check out the post above yours. I'm not trying to be dismissive, or rude by saying so, but a mod did just step in and kind of suggest that the discussion go elsewhere, if anywhere..And, mod or not, they're probably right too, IMO.

For my part in all that, apologies all round - and particularly to the OP. I should've simply kept my mouth shut, so to speak.

Peace, out.

Shemeska · Nov 10, 2006

Kelleris said:
Aus_Snow said:

the fact that Asmodeus may or may not be one of the progenitors of the multiverse, if I'm remembering my 2e lore correctly.

Click to expand...

2e 'Guide to Hell' claimed he was a primal LN being corrupted by evil, and spawned the Baatezu as a side effect of his fall. That book largely danced around the entire idea of the Ancient Baatorians.

Other 2e sources had the Baatezu (and Tanar'ri) as the side effects of the yugoloth/Baernaloth creation mythos, who displaced the Ancient Baatorians after being driven/herded into Baator. The Lords of the 9 don't appear till after this sequence of events, and the ultimate origin of any of the Lot9 including Asmo is left intentionally a mystery though with several potential origin natures for them given.

3.5 danced between giving the GtH idea as a rumor and ignoring entirely. The Fiendish Codex I confirmed the Baernaloth creation mythos, or rather a twist of it, as being accurate. It stated that the Baern/loths created the Obyriths and Ancient Baatorians; presumably the legend was remolded for political purposes in later periods. This opens up to potential to use both the Baernaloth creation mythos and the GtH stuff as well with only a little jostling of stuff.

But I don't have a clue how the authors of FC:II will approach the topic. Personally I'm hoping there's more mystery than any attempt at presenting a hard truth like GtH attempted to do, though sprinkling enough allusions to relevant material from various Planescape sources, maybe GtH, and new material.

Shemeska · Nov 10, 2006

I'm actually curious to see how FC:II handles previous Lords of the 9 who have since been deposed and exiled, or outright killed like Zariel (imprisoned as Bel's midnight snack), Geryon (dead), Moloch (good question, given the events of Apocalypse Stone), and perhaps even some previously undescribed Lot9.

I hunger for Nubberibos and a detailing of the lifecycle/caste system of Ancient Baatorians. If the book has this, any criticism of any other part of the book will be completely forgiven.

Psion · Nov 10, 2006

Shemeska said:
Personally I'm hoping there's more mystery than any attempt at presenting a hard truth like GtH attempted to do, though sprinkling enough allusions to relevant material from various Planescape sources, maybe GtH, and new material.

Yep. I like ideas. I don't like "canon that means that your campaign, if you have any ideas as a DM, necessarily departs from." 2e Guide to Hell vexed me greatly. (At the same time, I found one aspect of 2e's canon amusing, and sort of wished they would have flowed with it for 3e metasetting purposes...)

Psion · Nov 10, 2006

Shemeska said:
I hunger for Nubberibos and a detailing of the lifecycle/caste system of Ancient Baatorians. If the book has this, any criticism of any other part of the book will be completely forgiven.

On this area, I'm torn. I have my own ideas about ancient baatorians (well not entirely my own... I borrowed extensively from discussions on the old PSML.) While I've never taken the initiative to update my old ancient baatorians to 3e, I'll probably be mildly annoyed at first if their ideas stomp on mine. (And then I'll eventually get over it, and either morph what's in FC II to my liking, chuck it, or if it's cool, totally forget about my take.)

Kelleris · Nov 10, 2006

Aus_Snow said:
Uh, d00d. Much as I'd love (?) to go another round here, check out the post above yours. I'm not trying to be dismissive, or rude by saying so, but a mod did just step in and kind of suggest that the discussion go elsewhere, if anywhere..And, mod or not, they're probably right too, IMO.

For my part in all that, apologies all round - and particularly to the OP. I should've simply kept my mouth shut, so to speak.

Peace, out.

Hmm... I was typing my post while Eridanis was typing his, and didn't notice that he'd posted before me. Easily fixed.

countgray · Nov 10, 2006

I am all about the lore. I couldn't care less about the stats. I crave this book because I wan't to know the history of Hell, the reckoning and what lords have lost out to others. I want to learn how Triel fell. I wan't to know the secrets of Asmodeus, is he really a titanic serpent coiled around the deepest crevices of Nessus? I want to discover the mystery of the ancient Baatorians. I want to know about contracts for souls. I want to learn about the devils' relations with the layers and planes adjacent. I want maps of all the layers and cities. I want cool new fiends to encounter. I want to understand Baatezu politics. I want to hear about the Blood War.

All these things and more I hope to find inside!

Kelleris · Nov 10, 2006

Shemeska said:
2e 'Guide to Hell' claimed he was a primal LN being corrupted by evil, and spawned the Baatezu as a side effect of his fall. That book largely danced around the entire idea of the Ancient Baatorians.

Other 2e sources had the Baatezu (and Tanar'ri) as the side effects of the yugoloth/Baernaloth creation mythos, who displaced the Ancient Baatorians after being driven/herded into Baator. The Lords of the 9 don't appear till after this sequence of events, and the ultimate origin of any of the Lot9 including Asmo is left intentionally a mystery though with several potential origin natures for them given.

3.5 danced between giving the GtH idea as a rumor and ignoring entirely. The Fiendish Codex I confirmed the Baernaloth creation mythos, or rather a twist of it, as being accurate. It stated that the Baern/loths created the Obyriths and Ancient Baatorians; presumably the legend was remolded for political purposes in later periods. This opens up to potential to use both the Baernaloth creation mythos and the GtH stuff as well with only a little jostling of stuff.

Hmm, that's morbidly confusing. I had no idea the Guide to Hell contradicted other 2e sources. Urgh. Is that a common trend for these materials? I didn't realize the Fiendish Codesx authors had to codify and clean up the old sources as well as simply compiling and updating them...

Shade · Nov 10, 2006

Shemeska said:
I'm actually curious to see how FC:II handles previous Lords of the 9 who have since been deposed and exiled, or outright killed like Zariel (imprisoned as Bel's midnight snack), Geryon (dead), Moloch (good question, given the events of Apocalypse Stone), and perhaps even some previously undescribed Lot9.

I hunger for Nubberibos and a detailing of the lifecycle/caste system of Ancient Baatorians. If the book has this, any criticism of any other part of the book will be completely forgiven.

Indeed. I'd love to see the ancient baatorians given the obyrith treatment, and wouldn't mind a devil equivalent of the loumaras.

Flexor the Mighty! · Nov 10, 2006

How was Geryon killed? In A Paladin In Hell? In my game he is still master of his plane but I'm curious.

Fiendish Codex II next month--Any scoop/rumors/etc.?

Aus_Snow

First Post

Shemeska

Adventurer

Shemeska

Adventurer

Psion

Adventurer

Psion

Adventurer

Kelleris

Explorer

countgray

First Post

Kelleris

Explorer

Shade

Monster Junkie

Flexor the Mighty!

18/100 Strength!

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