Fiendish Codex II next month--Any scoop/rumors/etc.?

[GQuail]

I'm actually curious to see how FC:II handles previous Lords of the 9 who have since been deposed and exiled, or outright killed like Zariel (imprisoned as Bel's midnight snack), Geryon (dead), Moloch (good question, given the events of Apocalypse Stone), and perhaps even some previously undescribed Lot9.

I hunger for Nubberibos and a detailing of the lifecycle/caste system of Ancient Baatorians. If the book has this, any criticism of any other part of the book will be completely forgiven.

All sounds good to me. As others have said, the Fiendish Codex expanded out the Demon pantheon, so I'd like to see some info on other sub-groups of LE in here.

 

[Ripzerai]

How was Geryon killed? In A Paladin In Hell? In my game he is still master of his plane but I'm curious.

A Paladin in Hell gave the PCs an opportunity to kill him, but left the ending open. The adventure was deadly enough that it was unlikely.

He was still alive as of the Book of Vile Darkness web enhancement, no longer in power but still dwelling in Stygia.

Tome of Magic finally established he was dead. Asmodeus killed him after his failure in A Paladin in Hell, or something. I think it was a bad decision, but someone thought he'd make a good vestige.

 

[Shemeska]

Indeed. I'd love to see the ancient baatorians given the obyrith treatment, and wouldn't mind a devil equivalent of the loumaras.

Honestly, I think it'd be kinda cool if the Ancient Baatorians (in all their tentacled, light eating glory) are actually a distinct race from the things that are said to swim beneath the surface of Minauros.

 

[Shemeska]

Hmm, that's morbidly confusing. I had no idea the Guide to Hell contradicted other 2e sources.

At least so far as Asmodeus and the prehistory of Baator is concerned it pretty much trampled roughshod over a number of the earlier 2e sources. It made brief mention of the other stuff, but dismissed it with a statement along the lines of 'but that's not true at all, because everyone knows yugoloths lie'. And since the Ancient Baatorians don't mesh well with its history, it glosses over them heavily when they're alluded to. That said, I tend to view GtH as being some combination of diabolic propaganda and brilliant revisionist history with virtually no basis in fact (like much of the Baatezu's ideas on history).

Beyond some of those wacky, pseudo-Zoarastrian claims though, the book did do well in its fleshing out of the Reckoning which it incorporated from Paladin in Hell. I'll grant the book that. It's not without its good points, just some of it I hope is either stepped back from, muddied in myth and legend to the point of obscurity, or re-envisioned to make it gel with lower planar prehistory from other sources.

 

[James Jacobs]

Hmm, that's morbidly confusing. I had no idea the Guide to Hell contradicted other 2e sources. Urgh. Is that a common trend for these materials? I didn't realize the Fiendish Codesx authors had to codify and clean up the old sources as well as simply compiling and updating them...

Yeah... there was a LOT of contradicting material out there about the Abyss; part of what Erik and I tried to do with FC1 was figure out how to tie it all together in a way that annoyed the least amount of fans (which, of course, included us!). Part of the problem is, of course, the fact that during 2nd edition, the concept of demons and devils went through some pretty major changes, and then when the pendulum swung back near the end of 2E it didn't quite land where it started. Lolth transforming from minor demon lord to big-time goddess is perhaps the best example of this, but there were countless others to sort out and explain. It was fun... but it was also really hard and nerve-wracking.

 

[Shade]

Yeah... there was a LOT of contradicting material out there about the Abyss; part of what Erik and I tried to do with FC1 was figure out how to tie it all together in a way that annoyed the least amount of fans (which, of course, included us!). Part of the problem is, of course, the fact that during 2nd edition, the concept of demons and devils went through some pretty major changes, and then when the pendulum swung back near the end of 2E it didn't quite land where it started. Lolth transforming from minor demon lord to big-time goddess is perhaps the best example of this, but there were countless others to sort out and explain. It was fun... but it was also really hard and nerve-wracking.

Well, you guys sure did a fine job of reconciling all of it. Good work!

 

[Psion]

At least so far as Asmodeus and the prehistory of Baator is concerned it pretty much trampled roughshod over a number of the earlier 2e sources. It made brief mention of the other stuff, but dismissed it with a statement along the lines of 'but that's not true at all, because everyone knows yugoloths lie'.

You gotta admit, the major resources on fiends (being Faces of Evil and Hellbound) did leave a lot open to interpretation in that manner. And that's what I like about it.

But while I can't blame GtH for playing that card, I can blame it for not following suit and still leaving things open to interpretation.

 

[Nightfall]

Oy, this argument again?

Hey when archfiends are involved, it always comes up. I'm still irate with the way FR treats Archfiends after all the crap Orcus got dished on. I want to see him get some payback for that.

 

[demiurge1138]

Hey when archfiends are involved, it always comes up. I'm still irate with the way FR treats Archfiends after all the crap Orcus got dished on. I want to see him get some payback for that.

...how did I know that you'd mention Orcus, even though this is a topic on devils? I must be some sort of savant.

Demiurge out.

 

[Nightfall]

Demi,

Nah not that just I'm an Orcus fan...and he fights devils too!