OotS 449

Kid Charlemagne · May 8, 2007

Jdvn1 said:
I'm still wondering what undead are going to do to a necromancer.

Manifest. Touch Attack - Lay on Hands. Repeat.

IanB · May 8, 2007

Pielorinho said:
Wow--awesome! I'm such a Burlew fanboy.

A couple notes:
1) All ghosts can manifest, and by doing so, they can use touch attacks. Things like Lay on Hands are touch attacks. Xykon can resist with a forcecage or similar effect, sure, but forcecages are a minimum 20' cube: trapping himself in a forcecage would mean trapping himself in a room with various angry paladin ghosts.
2) I don't see any cloaked figures among the ghosts. Hmmm.

Daniel

Actually touch spells are the one type of effect called out as NOT working when manifested, and lay on hands falls into that category as a spell-like ability.

EDIT: Never mind, I am wrong! It is (su) and thus should work just fine. Good call.

Pielorinho · May 8, 2007

Moderator's Notes

Folks, I certainly appreciate the spirit in which people are reposting links to mirror sites for the latest strip. Unfortunately, Rich does not like it. From his FAQ:

Q: Can I repost one of the comic strips to another site? Can I alter the image and repost it?

A: Definitely not. The digital image of each strip is protected under copyright law, and reposting it or altering it without permission is going to almost always be a copyright violation. I need to be very careful with my intellectual property in order that I might be able to earn profit from my work.which in turn will allow me to create more of it. If I discover a site that is reusing my art, I will ask them to remove it, and I won.t feel bad about doing so.

I've removed the links above. I understand that creates an inconvenience for people, and I am sorry about that. But Rich produced this artwork, and so I want to respect his wishes about how to treat it.

No harm, no foul, but please don't do this in the future.

Daniel

Pielorinho · May 8, 2007

IanB said:
EDIT: Never mind, I am wrong! It is (su) and thus should work just fine. Good call.

Heh--it's only a good call in the sense that I'm like TWO steps behind you, and was aware neither of the potential problem nor the reason why the potential problem wasn't a problem. Thanks for pointing both out to me!

Daniel

Celebrim · May 8, 2007

Pielorinho said:
1) All ghosts can manifest, and by doing so, they can use touch attacks.

Actually, no.

"When a spellcasting ghost manifests, its spells continue to affect ethereal targets and can affect targets on the Material Plane normally unless the spells rely on touch. A manifested ghost’s touch spells don’t work on nonethereal targets."

However, as Kelleris reminds me, there magical weapons do have at least a chance of hitting Xykon so its not as much of a slaughter as I initially thought it would be.

And maybe Soon is smart enough to have a Ghost Touch weapon. If so, Soon is by himself a reasonable challenge for Xykon.

IanB · May 8, 2007

Celebrim said:
Actually, no.

"When a spellcasting ghost manifests, its spells continue to affect ethereal targets and can affect targets on the Material Plane normally unless the spells rely on touch. A manifested ghost’s touch spells don’t work on nonethereal targets."

However, as Kelleris reminds me, there magical weapons do have at least a chance of hitting Xykon so its not as much of a slaughter as I initially thought it would be.

And maybe Soon is smart enough to have a Ghost Touch weapon. If so, Soon is by himself a reasonable challenge for Xykon.

As I already pointed out after mistakenly trying to correct that statement earlier, Lay on Hands is not a touch spell. It is a supernatural ability and not covered by that rule.

Savage Wombat · May 8, 2007

Having finally gotten to see the strip, I want to publicly state that I saw this coming.

I can get my gaming group to confirm this if necessary.

Celebrim · May 8, 2007

IanB said:
As I already pointed out after mistakenly trying to correct that statement earlier, Lay on Hands is not a touch spell. It is a supernatural ability and not covered by that rule.

Hmmm.... must be another of the things that they changed in 3.5. My 3.0 book has the following, "Lay on hands a spell-like ability whose use is a standard action. Alternatively, the paladin can use any or all of these points to deal damage to undead creatures. Treat this attack just like a touch spell."

UPDATE: Reading over the 3.5 srd, I'm still not certain that its status as a supernatural ability helps.

"A ghost retains all the attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect creatures that are not ethereal. "

"A ghost retains all the special attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect nonethereal creatures."

wingsandsword · May 8, 2007

IanB said:
As I already pointed out after mistakenly trying to correct that statement earlier, Lay on Hands is not a touch spell. It is a supernatural ability and not covered by that rule.

Any more than the rules fudging of the Symbol of Insanity on a superball?

Destil · May 8, 2007

Celebrim said:
Hmmm.... must be another of the things that they changed in 3.5. My 3.0 book has the following, "Lay on hands a spell-like ability whose use is a standard action. Alternatively, the paladin can use any or all of these points to deal damage to undead creatures. Treat this attack just like a touch spell."

UPDATE: Reading over the 3.5 srd, I'm still not certain that its status as a supernatural ability helps.

"A ghost retains all the attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect creatures that are not ethereal. "

"A ghost retains all the special attacks of the base creature, although those relying on physical contact do not affect nonethereal creatures."

It's SU now do you don't need to worry about concentration or spell resistance.

OotS 449

Kid Charlemagne

I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator

IanB

First Post

Pielorinho

Iron Fist of Pelor

Pielorinho

Iron Fist of Pelor

Celebrim

Legend

IanB

First Post

Savage Wombat

Hero

Celebrim

Legend

wingsandsword

Legend

Destil

Explorer

Similar Threads