D&D 3E/3.5 3.0 Haste in 3.5

[Palskane]

Let's say I wanted to introduce the 3.0 version of Haste as an "Improved Haste" in 3.5. What level would you recommend it be set at?

I am leaning towards 7th, but would like to get some input. Thanks!

 

[Nifft]

Let's say I wanted to introduce the 3.0 version of Haste as an "Improved Haste" in 3.5. What level would you recommend it be set at?

I am leaning towards 7th, but would like to get some input. Thanks!

Beyond Epic.

It lets you cast an extra 9th level spell each round (or the highest level spell you can currently cast, if not yet 9th). Nothing else in the game allows that, except Automatic Quickening -- three of them, actually -- and that's an Epic feat.

(Though it's a bit beyond that, even, since the bonus actions stack.)

3.0e haste is the best spell you can cast in round 1 of any given battle, no matter what level you put it at. Thus, it's broken.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kirin'Tor]

I have to agree with Nifft; by my standards, the only good definition of 'broken' is when something becomes an inevitability. The 3.0e haste would be the _best_ spell in game, even at 9th level.

 

[the Jester]

Ditto.

I've been trying to fix a spell loosely based on 3.0 haste for my campaign, but I'm unhappy with all my takes on it so far. :\

 

[Slaved]

What is so broken about 3.0e haste?

 

[Elephant]

Let the effect be 'allows you to take two standard actions this round, instead of one move action and one standard action'. Add on the usual mechanical bonuses from normal Haste.

Then, make it last for one round. Cast Improved Haste, then two attack spells. You get two spells a round for the cost of an extra spell instead of a feat. Mechanically, you get the effect of a Greater Metamagic Rod of Quickening, which costs 170k - something a 15th level character book-level wealth could afford, if he was saving up for it ever since he hit 7th level. Given that, my version of the spell sounds just right as a 9th level spell.

IRT Slaved:

3.0 Haste gives you two standard actions per round, so you end up being able to cast three spells per round with Quicken Spell. It gives wizards a LOT of extra tactical power, being able to pump out spells that quickly.

 

[Celebrim]

What is so broken about 3.0e haste?

Are you familiar with much strategic theory? 3.0 haste is broken for the same reason that Ancestoral Recall is broken in Magic the Gathering. In MtG, the most important and often most limiting resource you have is the number of cards you have. In D&D, the most important and most limiting resource you have is the number of actions you have. The 3.0 version of haste effectively doubles your power, and throws in alot of nice bonuses besides.

 

[Destil]

You will need to reign it in somehow. I like giving it a full round casting time at 7th or 8th level, but even at 9th with a full round casting time it's still one of the best spells at that level (about equivelent to time stop, worse in a short fight but better when a combat runs more than 2-3 rounds. The constraints on what you can and can not do during a time stop are a big part of this, though).

 

[WhatGravitas]

The constraints on what you can and can not do during a time stop are a big part of this, though).

Problem: If cast in conjunction, haste doubles the power of time stop... and has effects afterwards.

 

[Slaved]

IRT Slaved:

3.0 Haste gives you two standard actions per round, so you end up being able to cast three spells per round with Quicken Spell. It gives wizards a LOT of extra tactical power, being able to pump out spells that quickly.

Looking it up you cast the spell and then from then on for the rest of the battle you get two standard actions a round instead of just one.

So if a battle lasts for 5 rounds and you cast this on the first round you gain 3 extra standard actions. That would allow a person to cast some extra spells but is it more powerful than something like the +4 intelligence booster spell? Two spells cast versus one spell with a +2 to the DC? It is likely harder to save against both spells but it also costs more spell slots.

The bonus to armor class is pretty high though. Maybe that could be reduced?

Are you familiar with much strategic theory? 3.0 haste is broken for the same reason that Ancestoral Recall is broken in Magic the Gathering. In MtG, the most important and often most limiting resource you have is the number of cards you have. In D&D, the most important and most limiting resource you have is the number of actions you have. The 3.0 version of haste effectively doubles your power, and throws in alot of nice bonuses besides.

I would say it is more like a sissay's ring that comes into play tapped but can tap for colored mana. Cards are extra options, haste does not give you more options it just gives you more chances to use the options that you already have.