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4 PCs vs Dragon (Closed)

Wippit Guud

First Post
Here's the challenge.

I run a Great Wyrm White Dragon, using only what's in the 3 core books.

Someone runs a level 20 character, using core books and WotC splat books.

3rd party DM has both characters via email, plus the layout of the dragon lair.

Object: kill the dragon.

I'm calling it a test to see what's better, a dragon or a PC :)

Any takers?
 
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Janos Audron

Explorer
So, not only are there no extra resources for the pc, the dragon also has the advantage of being in it's lair? Does it also know it's going to be attacked, or does the pc have the advantage of surprise?
 

Wippit Guud

First Post
Extra resourses? In what way? Extra people or something?
If you take Leadership, you can take in as many guys as you are allowed, and they get standard starting money as well.

As for the dragon, I'm taking 1 unidentifed cohort at CR 5 or less. (figured no leadership feat for that, they're friends). The dragon also only gets his hoard for resourses, and for reality sake, 1/4 of the money must remain as money.

Amd I missing something?
 


Janos Audron

Explorer
LOL!

Yes, that was what I meant too. A 20th level PHB Wizard can not beat that dragon. At least, I've thought about it for a minute, and there is no real easy way...

If you were able to use every book available, the dragon is toast. Fort save DC 80+ or die.

Personally I think 4 PCs vs. 1 Dragon, just core books is still gonna be tough.

So, how much money does a Great Wyrm have, even if he can only spend 3/4th of it?

I'm thinking about Playing the Dragon
 

Wippit Guud

First Post
You'll note the dragon wasn't an option :)

Dragons gets 160,000 gp, 1d4 medium magic items, and 1d3 major items. Went with 3 and 2 items respectively.

And ok... if that's a challenge, 1 on 1, every book PC vs core book Dragon... I could go for that, DC 80 fort save or no :)
 


Guilt Puppy

First Post
My basic tactics:

Sorceror. You have 6 time stops at that level (actually more, if you Cha bonus is at least +9). Stack them, one after the other. While hasted, of course.

Now, bombard with various levels of empowered Magic Missile. Assuming you average double-empowered, that's 25 (avg) damage per missile. You can do this twice per round (haste). You have six time stops, averaging 3.5 rounds each, resulting in an average of 21 rounds to act as you will. That's 42 spells you can cast, -5 because some of those are time stops. 37 magic missiles. Eleven out of twenty will penetrate SR (assuming you have spell penetration), which means you can rely on about 20.

That's 500 damage, in your first round. The dragon is down to 22 hit points (possibly more, or possibly dead).

Your 17th-level Transmuter cohort (Leadership), well, he's only got two time stops. But he only needs to do 22 damage, not 500. I think he can handle it. If not, maybe your horde of Monk followers can come up with something, even if it is just praying for natural 20s (note that you're all wearing similar costumes, and well-dispersed, so the dragon's chance of finding you is slim to begin with.)

Of course, all this is screwed if your Dragon has shield up, but you're a sorceror, you can improvise. Substitute other damaging spells for Magic Missile, you can probably pull similar damage.

Alternately, you can throw 12 finger of death spells in there. 8 should penetrate SR. Of course, his +28 Fortitude save means that you need to get up to at least DC 30... Requiring a +11 Cha bonus. Let's say you have this (that makes 14 finger of deaths you can do, 9 get through, plus an extra time stop to play with.) Assuming the dragon makes all its saves, it's still suffering in the neighborhood of 250 damage, and you have time left to bombard it with other damaging spells.

Of course it can buff against death effects, gaze attacks, magic missiles, energy forms, et cetera... That's why you need a variety of things in your arsenal. Don't know if there's any way to ward against time stop (if there is, there goes that tactic), but if there ain't, you can sure whip some damage in.
 


reapersaurus

Explorer
it's too bad you didn't catch some of the threads thru the years on this board that talked exactly about this kind of challenge.

It boils down to how much advantage the dragon has from his lair, and how good you are at playing the dragon.
Limiting the dragon to one CR 5 follower hurts his chances.
If you realistically grant the dragon knowledge that the PC's will attack him, thus giving him all his buffs, and so HE can control when the fight happens, thereby denying the PC's their short-duration buffs.... then the dragon should win.

Otherwise, high-level magic will make the fight kind of a joke - over before it begins.
 

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