Old Gumphrey
First Post
Me too, but not with a Dex to hit. "I deftly swing this gigantic sharp metal into his face."
4th Edition Bard
2eBladeSinger
First Post
First of all, well done! I am going to encourage my players in an upcoming game to try your bard. I will be glad to share our experiences.
I have a couple of questions:
Can you explain the justification for Inhibiting Song (page 4)? I would think it would need to do d6 or Weapon damage as well.
Would Tasha’s Hideous Laughter (page 5) be more viable if the save bonus was for a language difference rather than a racial difference. I can imagine that the power will be used most often on a member of another race. It would also give the bard advantages for learning other languages.
G’elsewhere (page 9) raises a lot of questions for me. Is the random direction determined with a d10? What if it puts the ally or object into difficult or hazardous terrain? What if it puts them into a wall or off a cliff? Is there any reason that it isn’t usable on enemies?
Does Haste (page 11) grant an additional basic attack with a bonus AS WELL AS A STANDARD ATTACK OR ACTION? That seems to be what it says.
Many powers take advantage of a phantom ‘second wind’. While I like the uniqueness of their effects from other healers, IMO the second wind term is used to distinguish itself from standard healing surge use, and the distinction is needed and therefore shouldn’t be used in class powers. Additionally, at first glance, the +2 defense buff this grants also seems to be a bit high. I would suggest a “healing surge use plus INT boost to one defense (Will or perhaps player’s choice)” replace instances of ‘second winds’.
To my understanding, a rapier is a superior melee weapon (should require a feat unless some concession is made otherwise).
Again, overall, this looks fantastic. You’ve really done your homework. I can’t wait to try it.
I have a couple of questions:
Can you explain the justification for Inhibiting Song (page 4)? I would think it would need to do d6 or Weapon damage as well.
Would Tasha’s Hideous Laughter (page 5) be more viable if the save bonus was for a language difference rather than a racial difference. I can imagine that the power will be used most often on a member of another race. It would also give the bard advantages for learning other languages.
G’elsewhere (page 9) raises a lot of questions for me. Is the random direction determined with a d10? What if it puts the ally or object into difficult or hazardous terrain? What if it puts them into a wall or off a cliff? Is there any reason that it isn’t usable on enemies?
Does Haste (page 11) grant an additional basic attack with a bonus AS WELL AS A STANDARD ATTACK OR ACTION? That seems to be what it says.
Many powers take advantage of a phantom ‘second wind’. While I like the uniqueness of their effects from other healers, IMO the second wind term is used to distinguish itself from standard healing surge use, and the distinction is needed and therefore shouldn’t be used in class powers. Additionally, at first glance, the +2 defense buff this grants also seems to be a bit high. I would suggest a “healing surge use plus INT boost to one defense (Will or perhaps player’s choice)” replace instances of ‘second winds’.
saric said:
To my understanding, a rapier is a superior melee weapon (should require a feat unless some concession is made otherwise).
Again, overall, this looks fantastic. You’ve really done your homework. I can’t wait to try it.
Cerulean_Wings
First Post
Y'know, at first I thought "Oh, another fan-created class, nice", and expected no more than that. Then I started reading and saw neatly written basics (similar to the 4e phb) about the Bard, two types of Bard, and so on. Interesting 
And then I saw the powers. Level 1 to 10. Level 10 to 20. Level 20 to 29. Sweet Pelor, there's practically 80 powers in the list, and most of what I've seen is well written, interesting, fits the Bard mystique and works mechanically. Some 3e spells made it to the list, and I liked that, since they were nifty
By now I was already awed and inspired by the amount of work that it took to craft all of this... and then I saw the paragon paths.
Saric, hands down, this is the best fanmade class I've seen for 4e, not in comparison to others, but as a standalone deal. Well done!
And then I saw the powers. Level 1 to 10. Level 10 to 20. Level 20 to 29. Sweet Pelor, there's practically 80 powers in the list, and most of what I've seen is well written, interesting, fits the Bard mystique and works mechanically. Some 3e spells made it to the list, and I liked that, since they were nifty
By now I was already awed and inspired by the amount of work that it took to craft all of this... and then I saw the paragon paths.
Saric, hands down, this is the best fanmade class I've seen for 4e, not in comparison to others, but as a standalone deal. Well done!
I'm not usually one to reply to these sorts of threads, but bards have always had a soft spot in my heart.
I didn't really go through all the powers, just skimmed a few examples at various levels, and I think you've got some neat ideas there. I'm curious though, I noted several powers (not just the 1st level at-wills) that increase in range/area as the bard levels. I haven't memorized all the other class's powers, but it seems to me that the only increases due to levels were the damages of the at-wills, and then only at 21st level (well, I guess the dragonborn's breath weapon, and healing word/inspiring word abilities increased too). Do you think straying from that idea is something the designers intend to do themselves eventually?
The main issue that stuck in my craw is the bard's skills: Streetwise and Arcana? I guess... I probably wouldn't hold a bard to those two... if anything, I'd give them History automatic. It's not a big deal though, since I can see a lot of bard's choosing those anyways, so why not make it simpler.
But the available skills being... all? (Well, all but Endurance). That's... a bit much, isn't it? Even the rogue (he of skill monkey fame) only has like 8-9 of the however many skills exist.
Now, since you can only pick three, maybe it's not so bad...
Until you get to your multiclass feat. It is strictly better than Skill Training for every skill except Endurance. I haven't explicitly checked, but I imagine that each skill can be covered by one multiclass feat or another, but it just seems... off... to me that one multiclass feat in particular should be so much more useful.
I didn't really go through all the powers, just skimmed a few examples at various levels, and I think you've got some neat ideas there. I'm curious though, I noted several powers (not just the 1st level at-wills) that increase in range/area as the bard levels. I haven't memorized all the other class's powers, but it seems to me that the only increases due to levels were the damages of the at-wills, and then only at 21st level (well, I guess the dragonborn's breath weapon, and healing word/inspiring word abilities increased too). Do you think straying from that idea is something the designers intend to do themselves eventually?
The main issue that stuck in my craw is the bard's skills: Streetwise and Arcana? I guess... I probably wouldn't hold a bard to those two... if anything, I'd give them History automatic. It's not a big deal though, since I can see a lot of bard's choosing those anyways, so why not make it simpler.
But the available skills being... all? (Well, all but Endurance). That's... a bit much, isn't it? Even the rogue (he of skill monkey fame) only has like 8-9 of the however many skills exist.
Now, since you can only pick three, maybe it's not so bad...
Until you get to your multiclass feat. It is strictly better than Skill Training for every skill except Endurance. I haven't explicitly checked, but I imagine that each skill can be covered by one multiclass feat or another, but it just seems... off... to me that one multiclass feat in particular should be so much more useful.
It's got a nice feel to it, and lot of flavor. But honestly its over powered.
At leas the level 1 powers are over powered compared to all other classes.
For example, you have a level 1 daily power that stuns an opponent and knocks it prone, and If I recall correctly did some damage as well.
No other class has a power that stuns an opponnent until level 10. Daze would have been a better choice.
You have another power that allows an attack against an enemy, grants yourself and an ally bonuses to attack, bonuses to defense, and temporary hit points for the ally...and that's a level 1 encounter power if I recall correctly.
Your concept and flavor are great, but I think you need to review the powers and bring them into balance with other leaders.
At leas the level 1 powers are over powered compared to all other classes.
For example, you have a level 1 daily power that stuns an opponent and knocks it prone, and If I recall correctly did some damage as well.
No other class has a power that stuns an opponnent until level 10. Daze would have been a better choice.
You have another power that allows an attack against an enemy, grants yourself and an ally bonuses to attack, bonuses to defense, and temporary hit points for the ally...and that's a level 1 encounter power if I recall correctly.
Your concept and flavor are great, but I think you need to review the powers and bring them into balance with other leaders.
SuperGnome
First Post
Like most, just starting to read through... I did a quick skim, then started reading each power and I'm very impressed. The omission of bards in 4e was a crying shame, so I'm pleased to say I will be counting this as CORE, barring any wonky powers that turn up.
Fantastic work!
Fantastic work!
saric said:
Personally, I rather liked this about the bard. I thought it was a deliberate class feature. The "light weapons only" limit on the rogue feels teeth-grindingly limiting to me.
I do understand the dilemma. No other class gets to make dex-based attacks with a heavy melee weapon.
Your choices are twofold: limit the weapons that can be used (effectively saying every bard in the world fights with a rapier), or change all of the melee attacks to Str vs. something, which brings the class in line with, say, clerics, as well as badly nerfing the melee build (which also brings it in line with clerics).
Nahat Anoj
First Post
I need to read the whole thing, but right now I can say this is a great bard write-up (it helps that I think this is very close to what the actual Bard will look like ).
Just about the only thing I can "complain" about is how Corellon, god of magic and the arts, or Sehanine, god of love, trickery, and illusions, are not on the gods list! They're better fits IMO than Erathis (who has a stodgy, LN vibe to me) or Ioun (who is too much of a smarty pants ).
But that is really a minor complaint - great work all around! I like how the class synergizes with Half-Elves, Eladrin, Tieflings, Halflings and Gnomes (races that I think should make good Bards). I'm going to offer this class to my players so we can playtest it for you, and I'll run a few NPCs.
).Just about the only thing I can "complain" about is how Corellon, god of magic and the arts, or Sehanine, god of love, trickery, and illusions, are not on the gods list! They're better fits IMO than Erathis (who has a stodgy, LN vibe to me) or Ioun (who is too much of a smarty pants
). But that is really a minor complaint - great work all around! I like how the class synergizes with Half-Elves, Eladrin, Tieflings, Halflings and Gnomes (races that I think should make good Bards). I'm going to offer this class to my players so we can playtest it for you, and I'll run a few NPCs.
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