4th Edition Bard

[saric]

It's got a nice feel to it, and lot of flavor. But honestly its over powered.

At leas the level 1 powers are over powered compared to all other classes.

For example, you have a level 1 daily power that stuns an opponent and knocks it prone, and If I recall correctly did some damage as well.
No other class has a power that stuns an opponnent until level 10. Daze would have been a better choice.

No but the rogue gets blinding barrage which is probably worse than being stunned and its an burst effect which works on multiple targets. so yeah...

You have another power that allows an attack against an enemy, grants yourself and an ally bonuses to attack, bonuses to defense, and temporary hit points for the ally...and that's a level 1 encounter power if I recall correctly.

See guarding attack and warlord's favor from the warlord especially when coupled with their respective "presences". Adding a bonus to ac equal to 1+ cha modifier or attack rolls equal to +1 your intelligence modifier. Also bear in mind they both do 2[w]+ str damage.

See also sacred flame which is an "at-will power" for the cleric, which is a ranged attack not a melee one and it deals 1d6 + wisdom mod and it grants temporary hit points or a saving throw.

I think its safe to say a 1[w] + dex modifier melee attack and a simple +1 to attack and defenses with temporary hp is either on par or underpowered compared to the potential you can dish out with either of those powers.

The only thing I can somewhat concede is maybe the bonus to attack and defenses shouldn't affect the bard as well.

Your concept and flavor are great, but I think you need to review the powers and bring them into balance with other leaders.

With all due respect, I think you need to read the other leader's powers a little more before you call out "overpowered".

 

[saric]

Can you explain the justification for Inhibiting Song (page 4)? I would think it would need to do d6 or Weapon damage as well.

I have changed this already and will be in the new compilation. and yes it is 1d6, but only a static -2 to the target's next attack roll.

Would Tasha’s Hideous Laughter (page 5) be more viable if the save bonus was for a language difference rather than a racial difference. I can imagine that the power will be used most often on a member of another race. It would also give the bard advantages for learning other languages.

This is a very good idea and I will probably use it if you don't mind.

G’elsewhere (page 9) raises a lot of questions for me. Is the random direction determined with a d10? What if it puts the ally or object into difficult or hazardous terrain? What if it puts them into a wall or off a cliff? Is there any reason that it isn’t usable on enemies?

I will admit it is a bit unclear, thus I will alter the description and tweak it a little bit so its less confusing.

Does Haste (page 11) grant an additional basic attack with a bonus AS WELL AS A STANDARD ATTACK OR ACTION? That seems to be what it says.

It should just be an additional basic attack. Thus if you wanted to use a standard action power and didn't move in the round you can attack 1 more time with just a "basic melee or ranged attack."

Many powers take advantage of a phantom ‘second wind’. While I like the uniqueness of their effects from other healers, IMO the second wind term is used to distinguish itself from standard healing surge use, and the distinction is needed and therefore shouldn’t be used in class powers. Additionally, at first glance, the +2 defense buff this grants also seems to be a bit high. I would suggest a “healing surge use plus INT boost to one defense (Will or perhaps player’s choice)” replace instances of ‘second winds’.

The original balance design was against cure light wounds. Cure light wounds creates a "virtual" healing surge out of thin air. This is extremely powerful especially during a long day or a difficult fight. Since the bard makes you use your own surge, making it act as a virtual second wind doesn't seem so bad.

To my understanding, a rapier is a superior melee weapon (should require a feat unless some concession is made otherwise).

Rogues get proficiency with the hand crossbow and with shuriken. (they should have gotten rapier too.)

However, I'll think about it. Especially since I'm considering a possible limitation of weapon types(light blades) for the bard's melee attacks.

 

[daveb22]

saric this is good stuff. i was hoping i wouldn't have to wait for the PHB II for a bard

 

[azigen]

Paragon Tier Feat

Riddle of Steel should be renamed to something more "Dwarf" sounding.

Like Anvil of Steel, The Love of Metal, Iron in my veins, or Ring the Anvil.

Riddle of Steel is a great name but does not have a blacksmithy feel to it.

Get rid of Devis and put Gimble in! Also, make an opening suggestion about Races for this class.

 

[renau1g]

Well Done Saric! I can't wait to give this a try.

 

[KevinF]

...
With all due respect, I think you need to read the other leader's powers a little more before you call out "overpowered".

Taking your advice, I reconsidered my thoughts that a couple powers might be a bit too good... and I decided that you're right. They are good, but not too good.

I'll be sending your PDF to a friend of mine who loves to play bards.

 

[slingbld]

Very well done.
I just have one small lurker/moocher question: When will the updated/revised Bard PDF be release?

 

[saric]

Very well done.
I just have one small lurker/moocher question: When will the updated/revised Bard PDF be release?

I already put it up and here are the links. The links also are on the first post of the thread.

http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/00c3f43792_1.38MB
http://www.badongo.com/file/10099912

 

[Zsig]

What do you think about this alternative for Bards that fight with weapons and thus have no hands free to play the instrument?

Vocal Scarf 4+
<insert fluff text here>

Lvl 4   +1         840 gp       Lvl 19    +4         105,000 gp
Lvl 9   +2       4,200 gp       Lvl 24    +5         525,000 gp
Lvl 14  +3      21,000 gp       Lvl 29    +6       2,625,000 gp

Item Slot: Neck
Enhancement: Fortitude, Reflex, and Will
Property: This item functions as a bard implement,
adding its enhancement bonus to attack rolls and damage
rolls for bard powers that use implements. If used in
this way, on a critical hit, it deals +1d6 thunder damage
per plus.
Power (Daily): Free Action. Reroll a Diplomacy check
you just rolled. Use the new result.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

That's pretty cool, it's like a built-in amp.