StephenHawking
First Post
Was sound burst supposed to be Str vs Fort?
saric said:Clerics could turn undead more than once per encounter too in 3.5. But not anymore.
Bardic music is supposed to not be as powerful as channel divinity powers.
By allowing unlimited sustains for the powers as written now, it is way too good for a class feature or even other encounter powers compared to the other classes. Thus either the bonuses would have to change or the number of targets.
Its a mistake in the wording that I put in the description. Bardic instruments should work just like a cleric's holy symbol, which means you don't have to be actually wielding it to gain its benefit. You can just wear your harp on your back while giving your inspiring speech or sing your song without an instrument and you'd still get the bonus. The reason the implement exists is to give you a bonus to keep up with the power curve of the game and other classes.
saric said:As another suggestion, you could probably have a small scroll, book, pamphlet or yelling cone which could contain or amplify your speeches and you could consider that to be your bardic instrument. Otherwise, it would be called a "musical" instrument.
Well considering the fact that the two builds I made for the class are spellblade and the musician. I think it makes perfect sense. So unless you're suggesting to change the name to "entertainer" or suggesting a new build, you really aren't helping much.Chimera said:Again, not every Bard is a musician. They can be actors, mimes, jugglers, storytellers, information gatherers. The whole 'Instrument' thing is an artifact of assuming they must be minstrels.
Bardic music is supposed to not be as powerful as channel divinity powers.
Chimera said:Cite please? 4e seems to be more about balance between the classes, not the 3e philosophy of making Clerics more powerful than any other class because people don't want to play them. Besides, it's not more powerful, it's fulfulling the Bard's usual role, which is not the Cleric's usual role. (I can probably count on one hand the times I've been the recipient of the Bless spell over the last 20 years and a dozen gaming groups.)
No, its supposed to be Charisma vs Fortitude, added to the changes.StephenHawking said:Was sound burst supposed to be Str vs Fort?
saric said:In 4th edition, clerics and warlords are leaders. I'm not sure if you read the class roles in the phb p16 ("Leaders inspire, heal and aid the other characters in an adventuring group.").
I made the bard into a leader, therefore the bard should essentially not be as powerful than a warlord or cleric who are also can accomplish the bard's same role. If the bard becomes more powerful, why on earth would anyone play a cleric/warlord when they wanted to be a leader?
Chimera said:Bard should be Leaders, I would expect nothing less. However, you are incorrect in saying that they should NOT be as powerful as Clerics and Warlords. They should be exactly as powerful in different ways. Why would anyone want to play a Bard if they are specifically LESS powerful than Clerics and Warlords.
However, having looked over your class a bit more, I have the following suggestions or comments;
1> Inspire Courage should last for the entire encounter.
2> Inspire Competence is not available until 3rd level in 3e. I would suggest removing this from the Class Abilities and making it a Utility ability a few levels up the scale.
3> Healing is not available until 2nd level in 3e and given their very limited spellcasting and known number of spells, is a CHOICE made by a particular Bard. The only reason I took a healing spell at all was because of a Reserve Feat I got for free. Healing Hymn could be removed from the class ability list and made an Encounter or Utility.
To be sure, as a Leader class in 4e, they need some kind of healing ability, but as a 2nd level Utility(Encounter), it would be good.
4> Bards are much more limited spellcasters in 3e than other spellcasting classes. You are changing that significantly. I'm not sure whether or not this is good or bad, but it is different, especially in your granting more spell-like abilities at 1st level.
But all in all, don't take my comments as being harsh or negative. I think you did a great job on putting it together, and I thank you for doing so. I'm just a very interested player of a Bard PC whose campaign is waiting for a usable 4e Bard before we convert our campaign over, and as such, I have a vested interest in being able to do the sort of things my character has always done.
ryryguy said:Chimera:
Your 3e bard sounds like he would be best in 4e as a Warlord.