D&D 5E 5e: Stat the Lady of Pain...so we can overthrow her

[jonesy]

Secondly, beings at that level of power ought to be at least a little mysterious. They're not like dragons, in that every high-level adventurer probably has a dragon slaying story. If the stats are in a book somewhere, some players will read them, and at that point they become less deities and more high level monsters.

Exactly! What this game needs more is mystery, not less of it.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Some things should be impossible, even in a world of magic. Time flows one direction, though you can jump back in time. Light travels faster than anything else in a linear path, though you can teleport to bypass space.

Nah, "impossible" is just an obstacle to overcome.

And the Lady of Pain is unassailable, though you can become the most powerful entity in reality without provoking her ire.

She's the one who's going to be cowering to avoid provoking my and my companions' ire. We are D&D heroes, and we are going to assail her world so hard, she'll change her name to "The Lady of I-never-knew-such-pain-existed-before-I-was-smacked-down-by-the-new-Lords-of-Sigil".

I get that some people need to climb Everest "because it's there." But saying you want to kill the Lady of Pain is like saying "I want to climb the color lavender." It's not a concept that makes sense.

Nah...it just shows how beaten down this generation of players and DMs are. In the Astral Sea, I can climb the color lavender. When I'm in charge of D&D, every self-respecting player will boast of how they kicked the tar out of the Lady of Pain and every other overgod.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Exactly! What this game needs more is mystery, not less of it.

One person's "mystery" is another's "vague unmanliness".

 

[jonesy]

One person's "mystery" is another's "vague unmanliness".

Poobah. Lack of mystery is what is ruining Star Wars. Everything needs to be statted out, catalogued, defined, and stated. It's turning every single thing the same lame boring mass.

 

[Shemeska]

She's a mystery, background flavor and mythology for Sigil, and if you so choose, she can be a plot device.

And if you want to define her in your own campaign, by all means do so if that's your thing. But the setting always made a point of -not- nailing her down in a defined manner, so that the mystique is there, and all options are preserved. I really have a hard time understanding why this seems to get some folks goat...

 

[RangerWickett]

Nah, "impossible" is just an obstacle to overcome.

She's the one who's going to be cowering to avoid provoking my and my companions' ire. We are D&D heroes, and we are going to assail her world so hard, she'll change her name to "The Lady of I-never-knew-such-pain-existed-before-I-was-smacked-down-by-the-new-Lords-of-Sigil".

Nah...it just shows how beaten down this generation of players and DMs are. In the Astral Sea, I can climb the color lavender. When I'm in charge of D&D, every self-respecting player will boast of how they kicked the tar out of the Lady of Pain and every other overgod.

I'd like to see you try, punk. You'll never have such influence over Dungeons & Dragons because you don't understand what power is. Planescape is the setting where philosophy reigns supreme. The multiverse, and this messageboard, cares not for your meager fears of 'unmanliness.' Your best bet is to take the delusions of grandeur you value so much, and wrap yourself in a world of your own invention, where you can be exactly as 'powerful' as you want to be.

Meanwhile, in the rest of the verse, your pocket dimension will be marked simply as "a place not to waste one's time exploring, because it's boring there."

 

[Dungeonosophy]

Even if a DM decides that gods can be killed, it should be up to the DM how powerful (what level) they are. Some DMs might like the idea that 10th level characters can challenge a god, while others might prefer for it be unfeasible before level 30 (or whatever).

Nah, Overgods (not to mention paltry Gods) ought to have very specific stats, just like any other monster. That way it will really mean something when a party defeats Lord Ao and takes over the Great Tree and Realmspace. Sure, once he realizes we're gunning for him, Ao might send out some lower-level Avatars. No matter--they'll be appetizers for the final feast on overgodflesh.

If the stats are in a book somewhere, some players will read them, and at that point they become less deities and more high level monsters.

That's what overdeities are...high-level monsters!

Lastly, fighting deities should always be a challenge.

I agree. 50th-level or 144th-level overdeities are gonna be a helluva challenge. That's why you and me are gonna have to practice beforehand, and make a plan. Are you with me Fanaelialae?

If the players know a god's stats, they can be much better prepared.

Good idea. If you will front me the jink, I'll get the scoop from Recidivism.

For example, they might opt against getting armor that protects against lightening if they know that Thor ignores lightening resistance, which they might not have done if they hadn't known his stats.

By the time we get to storming the pleasure gardens of the Odalisque of Ouch, Thor will be our henchman-lackey like Nodwick.

Moreover, a stat block in a book is not designed with your particular party in mind. Even an incredibly dangerous foe can be potentially nullified with the right combo.

Exactly. Now you're talkin my language!

With all that said, I think it's likelier than not that we'll see stats for deities.

...and then stats for Overdeities!

Let's face it, very few groups are ever going to fight Thor, Ao, or The Lady of Pain.

I've been away for too long. I didn't realize how unmanly my fellow D&D players had become.

As such, I hope they keep the deity stat blocks to a minimum

Fanaelialae! Come to your senses man! We are D&D heroes...

 

[Dungeonosophy]

This one I don't really get, because why? He doesn't do anything.

All the more reason to oust the lazy bast*rd. When we are High Gods of Krynn, we will do lots of things.

 

[jonesy]

I don't know what sort of adventures your Mystara immortals had, but the higher our Known World Immortals got the less the stories were about defeating something, and more about building and exploring and understanding, and using that understanding for more building and exploring. And I'm not even talking about the building of physical things in the world. When you have a party of level 70 characters pure combat kind of becomes a bore, and you want more than that.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

I really have a hard time understanding why this seems to get some folks goat...

Do you understand the three reasons listed in the OP?