D&D 5E [5e] Witcher: Mother of Monsters

Shayuri

First Post
Storm sorceror would be GREAT! I have just the character in mind if that's allowed!

It also means we'd need to choose some different surges, which is good. Because...well...I'll choose an example from your table.

Everyone within 30' of the source, including the source, is subject to the Weird spell.

Okay. So Weird is a 9th level attack spell. Every turn it's in effect the targets roll Wisdom saves. On a fail, they take 4d10 damage. Every turn. Now, since it's a surge, I'm presuming the caster doesn't have to maintain concentration. So that's 22 damage on average per turn, per failed save. Oh, and on the first turn they have to make another wisdom save or be frightened for the entire duration.

At third level, characters can withstand maybe 2 rounds of this. Maybe. It is at best a death sentence for the source. Depending on the circumstances, it can be a TPK-in-a-box. And I stress, the conditions under which a surge take place are not uncommon, and this result is 1 in 6 of occurring -every time there's a surge-.

I'm not sure you're taking into account how often this is going to be. :)
 

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Quickleaf

Legend
I'm interested in the Source variant, but I'm a little concerned by some of those Wild Surge entries. Several are potential campaign enders, especially given that wild surges look fairly frequent.

But...LIFE PATH!

Muahahaha. I must roll, like a troll. Because random is hilarious.

Homeland: [roll0] Kovier and Poviss
Birth: [roll1] Uneventful
Childhood: [roll2] Sold!
Defining Event: [roll3] Betrayal
How I Met Someone: [roll4] Undetermined? Sibling?
3rd War: [roll5] ?
Why Adventure?: [roll6] ?

The last two are WIPs, but I'll roll anyway because why not? :)

About the life path, I haven't finished the "Why Adventure?" part yet, but your other results:

How I Met Someone: (5) Informant: One of you provided information that either helped the other learn something or incriminated the other.

3rd War: (6) Opportunist: You saw an opportunity to improve your lot during the war by taking advantage of the chaos whether thru smuggling, racketeering, theft, treasure-hunting, etc.
 

Steve Gorak

Adventurer
Solid character background! Thanks for your interest :) We'll have to keep an eye out for a way to tie your character's background - with the [monster/plot hook] - to another PC or PCs. What region are you thinking of hailing from?

Yes, the "Magic Without Borders" feat applies to cantrips as well.

As for your level question, I am flexible so I posed it to the group. But as a matter of combat pacing and experience, I should let you know that "D&D dungeon crawl" style pacing will be fairly uncommon. Additionally, I will be using quest/goal related level advancement instead of XP rewards for monsters. This will not be a game of "19 year-old pig farmers who become 18th level warriors in a matter of weeks or months." 18th-level characters would be old, middle-aged at least and most likely much older. I am expecting the pacing to include seasons of downtime without level gain, so a more "literary epic" feel if that makes sense.

Hi [MENTION=20323]Quickleaf[/MENTION]!

To answer your question, I am very open for my character's background region and besides, I'm not familiar enough with the setting to have a strong preference. We can wait to see where the other characters are from and adjust mine in consequence. I'm also very open to suggestions/recommendations.

As for the level, I was hoping for a character that is a bit older (for human & medieval standards), in his late twenties/early thirties. He'll have traveled the lands, studied different magics, always trying to find information about those who desecrated his tree of life. I see him as a nature oriented sage, but quite comfortable in the world's libraries, that made a reputation for himself as a wielder of various magics. Visualize a younger Gandalf, that can shape-change into a wolf ;-)
I'm hoping to be at least level 4 or 5 because I want my character to have 2 feats: magic without borders and magic initiate (wizard - for the extra cantrips - for the wizardly feel). Also, the extra levels will help surviving Shayuri's character's surges ;-)

If you don't object, I'll prepare a 5th level character, and will modify him if necessary.

Oh, I have a small request: can you post the wiki link in the fist post of this thread so we can easily access it?

I'm looking forward to this game! ;-)
Cheers,

SG
 
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Steve Gorak

Adventurer
Storm sorceror would be GREAT! I have just the character in mind if that's allowed!

It also means we'd need to choose some different surges, which is good. Because...well...I'll choose an example from your table.

Everyone within 30' of the source, including the source, is subject to the Weird spell.

Okay. So Weird is a 9th level attack spell. Every turn it's in effect the targets roll Wisdom saves. On a fail, they take 4d10 damage. Every turn. Now, since it's a surge, I'm presuming the caster doesn't have to maintain concentration. So that's 22 damage on average per turn, per failed save. Oh, and on the first turn they have to make another wisdom save or be frightened for the entire duration.

At third level, characters can withstand maybe 2 rounds of this. Maybe. It is at best a death sentence for the source. Depending on the circumstances, it can be a TPK-in-a-box. And I stress, the conditions under which a surge take place are not uncommon, and this result is 1 in 6 of occurring -every time there's a surge-.

I'm not sure you're taking into account how often this is going to be. :)

Ouch! Perhaps we should be accompanying your character to the elven nation of Dol Blathanna! Or perhaps you'll want to be Odvara Kringen ;-)
 

Shayuri

First Post
lol...happily, if I'm Storm bloodline, then I'm NOT the Wise bloodline, which is the one that has that Weird surge. In fact, the surges for the Elder bloodline aren't nearly -as- bad. The Wise bloodline has some really potentially horrible ones. Ironic given their focus on healing and the like. :(

I would think Talashia's surges would tend to involve disruptions in weather, sudden outbursts of lightning, and similar destructive phenomenon. Quickleaf if you're open to the idea of going that way, I'd like to develop it.

I might also ask to tweak the lifepath results juuuuuuuuust a little. :) Because I have a background in mind.

And stat roll:

Attributes: 6#4d6k3 14 [4d6k3=[5, 5, 4], 3] 12 [4d6k3=[6, 3, 3], 2] 15 [4d6k3=[6, 5, 4], 2] 11 [4d6k3=[5, 4, 2], 2] 16 [4d6k3=[6, 6, 4], 3] 12 [4d6k3=[5, 4, 3], 3]

Not too bad! Can't hit 18 to start, but that's not as much a requirement in 5th ed as in previous editions. :)

With that array I'd go:

Str 11
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 16

Human goodness goes on Dex and Cha, for 16 and 17 respectively. That sets me up for an 18 Cha at 4rth level, which is quite respectable. Or...orrrrr...I could take Actor at 1st for my bonus feat, and start with 18. hmmmmm

I would like to override the die roll that said her birth was 'uneventful' and state that it took place during an intense storm, which culminated in her mother being struck by lightning at the moment of birth. She perished, but the infant was saved; unaccountably unharmed by the strike.

However, as she grew up, her father noticed the strangeness that dogged the child, as did the other villagers.When she was still young he took her into the woods and met with either the Conclave or the Sorceresses, handing her over to them in exchange for a 'finder's fee,' and thus turning his misfortune in having a magic-blighted daughter into a windfall.

No wait better idea

He sold Talashia to a witcher. One of them was in the market for a recruit, and he caught wind of it and offered up his little girl. The witcher, unaware of what exactly he was getting, put some silver in the man's hand and took Talashia off to be trained. Annnnnnd it went about as well as one might expect. Which is to say, very very poorly. High pressure training and emotional duress against a source completely unable to control her powers.

This means she could possibly know our party witcher from being in training together! You'd have fond memories of dodging lightning bolts as a tornado whipped through the courtyard! Ahhh...good times.

They passed her off to the Conclave or Sorceresses (doesn't really matter to me which at this point...we can discuss the ramifications of either).

Talashia was there apprenticed, but the enclave she was taken to was betrayed from within and fell to witch hunters that Talashia herself only narrowly escaped. She dogged the trail of the traitor, eventually repaying the favor by stirring a mob against her (or him).

Vengeance wreaked, Talashia lost her way for a time. The empire of Nilfgaard began expanding northward and she took advantage of the chaos. Sometimes by rendering spells for hire...always carefully of course...sometimes simply by picking over battlefields before the necrophages arrived in force. She'd already seen enough of death that she could stare it in the face.

But it was not for her. That was what she decided. She would be as undying as the storm inside her. The power would show the way.
 
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Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION]

Yes I'm totally fine with you using the Storm sub-class for your Source PC.

Let's brainstorm an appropriate Wild Surge table; I'm down to develop sudden disruptions of weather, sudden lightning, and so forth with you :) Bear in mind these Wild Surges are NOT meant to be like the whimsical possibly beneficial surges of the PHB wild mage; they're meant to be dangerous things you (usually) want to avoid.

You're right that the existing wild surge tables for the 2 Source sub-classes need a little revision. Weird is too powerful; I failed to realize it was a damage spell and confused it with a more illusion/charm type effect.

That said, I don't see these Wild Surges as common. This isn't like "hey I am angry cause those bandits stole are horses, then holy crap I'm freaking out and tearing open a hole into another world!!" It takes really strong emotion to trigger these Wild Surges (see the Source Weakness class feature), so I'd guess frequency might be roughly once every level of adventure or two. Which is why I made them big story-driving things. Clearly, however, you're seeing these Wild Surges as occurring more frequently...what are you thinking?

I might also ask to tweak the lifepath results juuuuuuuuust a little. :) Because I have a background in mind.
Cheating roll-troll. :D Nah, just kidding.

Shayuri said:
I would like to override the die roll that said her birth was 'uneventful' and state that it took place during an intense storm, which culminated in her mother being struck by lightning at the moment of birth. She perished, but the infant was saved; unaccountably unharmed by the strike...<snip>
Wow, that's intense!

Great work on Talashia's background! Lots to work with there! Let me toss out some questions:

1. Does Talashia have bad blood with her father? Does she even know where her family is? Does she care?

2. She was sold to a witcher, which means she could have a connection to [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION]'s or [MENTION=2820]Fenris[/MENTION]' witcher PCs. Something for you guys to discuss? Maybe the older witcher though he was doing the troubled father a favor since he was at his wits end? Or maybe there was something more nefarious about the witcher's buying the child? Up to you!

3. Whether she was apprenticed at the Conclave of Mages or the Lodge of Sorceresses would have a definite impact on her relations with spell caster PCs and the story:
  • Apprenticing with the Conclave implies that Talashia was earnestly being trained though she might have been more than the mages could handle. During this time, she may have run across [MENTION=15132]Steve Gorak[/MENTION]'s druid PC (or any other mage PCs) during the end of his studies in Ban Ard (the sorcerer school in Kaedwen). Since Kaedwen was occupied by Redania during the Third Northern War, and Redania is the seat of the Witch Hunters, it's possible Ban Ard (or more likely a smaller offshoot) was betrayed and the Witch Hunters took it down.
  • Apprenticing with the Lodge implies that Talashia had a more personal relationship with a particular sorceress, and possibly was being manipulated. I would suggest Margerita Laux-Antille who specializes in curses (well, the warding of curses), since she'll come into play in the first adventure. Since Aretuza is on the Isle of Thanedd and it's very unlikely that witch hunters would manage to take it down, it's more likely a smaller group of sorceresses was betrayed.

4. Who was this traitor that Talashia sicked a mob upon? What was their motive? How did Talashia manage to stir a mob without becoming a target of their frenzy herself being an "abomination of magic"?

5. Lastly, what propelled Talashia from her "time where she lost her way" into the current adventure escorting Odvara, a fellow Source, to the Posada region of Dol Blathanna to deliver her to the elves? I'm imagining something like Talashia being guided by lightning storms to Odvara's hometown in Upper Aedirn where she ends up escorting her, though we'll need a bit more to go on than that...
 

Quickleaf

Legend
To answer your question, I am very open for my character's background region and besides, I'm not familiar enough with the setting to have a strong preference. We can wait to see where the other characters are from and adjust mine in consequence. I'm also very open to suggestions/recommendations.
Let's see...druid circles definitely exist in Skellige, Angren, and Toussaint (Nilfgaard)...hmm...

The first adventure takes place in the Posada Region in the western borderlands of Dol Blathanna (elven nation). There was a druid circle in Posada known as the Circle of Tagha Bough, but it was destroyed by dark forces, allegedly the local wicked spirit Nan the Hag. Could make for a nice tie-in for your PC? Maybe your character suspects whoever desecrated his Tree of Life it wasn't actually the hag, or maybe he suspects she has 2 sisters who aided her in the foul endeavor?

A question: What propelled him to escort Odvara Kringen to the elves of Dol Blathanna? Does he have a personal relationship with her or the elves? Is there some unfinished task his circle had involving Odvara before it was destroyed? Is he following some divination he made beneath his desecrated Tree of Life, so he can't be certain whether Odvara is a force of wicked corruption or of balance?

As for the level, I was hoping for a character that is a bit older (for human & medieval standards), in his late twenties/early thirties. He'll have traveled the lands, studied different magics, always trying to find information about those who desecrated his tree of life. I see him as a nature oriented sage, but quite comfortable in the world's libraries, that made a reputation for himself as a wielder of various magics. Visualize a younger Gandalf, that can shape-change into a wolf ;-)
Sounds good. I definitely think your character should have a connection to the Conclave of Mages based in Ban Ard (Kaedwen) given his breadth of study.

Since he's well-traveled, maybe he met one or more fellow PCs while on the road or at a roadside tavern/inn?

And I suspect he might be the group's resident linguist? There are 7 main languages in the setting: common, dryad, dwarven, elder speech, gnomish, nilfgaardian, and skellige.

I'm hoping to be at least level 4 or 5 because I want my character to have 2 feats: magic without borders and magic initiate (wizard - for the extra cantrips - for the wizardly feel). Also, the extra levels will help surviving Shayuri's character's surges ;-)

If you don't object, I'll prepare a 5th level character, and will modify him if necessary.
I am OK with that, though I do have conditions if you are going to be higher level than the other PCs.

First, for narrative reasons you be older than the other PCs. Obviously with elves/dwarves or long-lived witchers this isn't a hard-and-fast rule.

Second, keep your hit points in the same ballpark as the other PCs. This can be accomplished in a variety of ways we can discuss.

Third, if you start at 5th level keep in mind that access to 3rd level spells does alter the work I need to do as DM to balance the adventure to the group's power level. In essence, I'm not balancing just to the group's level but to the highest level in the group as well. Thus, I'd prefer if you steered clear of high-damage area effect spells like call lightning or fireball to begin with until the group reaches 5th level.

Oh, I have a small request: can you post the wiki link in the fist post of this thread so we can easily access it?

I'm looking forward to this game! ;-)
Done! And so am I :)
 
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Shayuri

First Post
Yes I'm totally fine with you using the Storm sub-class for your Source PC.

Hooray!

Let's brainstorm an appropriate Wild Surge table; I'm down to develop sudden disruptions of weather, sudden lightning, and so forth with you :) Bear in mind these Wild Surges are NOT meant to be like the whimsical possibly beneficial surges of the PHB wild mage; they're meant to be dangerous things you (usually) want to avoid.

Yar, I get that, and that's great in my view. That said, they shouldn't be SO dangerous that you (the GM) feel like you don't want to risk destroying the game because of a single random roll. :) Or that the other players have trouble justifying their involvement with what is essentially a human nuclear device. I'll get to that in more detail shortly.

You're right that the existing wild surge tables for the 2 Source sub-classes need a little revision. Weird is too powerful; I failed to realize it was a damage spell and confused it with a more illusion/charm type effect.

Well, it is that. But it's one that does quite a lot of damage, potentially. :) To that though, even the Elder sorceror's 'force explosion' power does the same damage 3 times...which is a lot. Not AS bad, but still very dangerous. Consider too that THIS damage has no save to mitigate it; get away or get dead. At least it doesn't kill the Source (though leaves him helpless in the aftermath which could be as good as, depending on the situation). I think the force explosion could be salvaged more or less by allowing a Dexterity save for half damage; or by making it a single big boom rather than a continuous 3 round doomfest, and possibly by reducing the toll on the caster to Stunned until a Con save is made rather than just Unconscious for an unspecified duration of time. Stunned is still bad, but doesn't let someone walk up and slit your throat quite as easily. :)

That said, I don't see these Wild Surges as common. This isn't like "hey I am angry cause those bandits stole are horses, then holy crap I'm freaking out and tearing open a hole into another world!!" It takes really strong emotion to trigger these Wild Surges (see the Source Weakness class feature), so I'd guess frequency might be roughly once every level of adventure or two. Which is why I made them big story-driving things. Clearly, however, you're seeing these Wild Surges as occurring more frequently...what are you thinking?

I'm thinking there's no guidelines for how common they are. It's -entirely- up to the GM. You provide the GM with 3 situations that provoke you, and the GM decides when and how to weave those situations into the story. It could happen any time. As often as the GM wants. And the reality is that any 3 situations I provide for, say, Talashia will probably be pretty common events, like 'mages being persecuted by witless proles.' Because that's what she's gone through, and that's something that angers her. The description of this weakness doesn't really give much sense of how often it's intended to come into play, but selecting three hooks makes it feel to me like it will be if not 'common' than not 'uncommon' either.

That's kind of dodging the real issue though, which is...how commonplace should sending your friends to another world with no hope of return be? How often is slaughtering a village by accident acceptable? I totally get that you wanted these surges to be more than just 'randomly cast a spell hah hah it's funny' but some of these are pretty over the top. :) Especially in how most of them are pretty vaguely phrased, have limited or no defense, and can inflict irrevocable changes not just to the Source, but to the PCs with the Source. Which makes playing a Source something that would be (once it happens a time or two) very unpopular around the table, I would think. And gaming is a social thing. What people think about the character I play IS important to me. The existing Wild Mage table, for all its frothiness, is already fairly controversial at one of my games...because of its potential to detonate Fireballs in our midst, or otherwise give allies a hard time. Fortunately, it's a giant table that is roughly equally stocked with useful effects as negative, so that controversy is muted.

But a 1 in 6 chance to just get zoinked to Hades if you muff a Str check? That would not go over well.

Cheating roll-troll. :D Nah, just kidding.

It was necessary. For the greater good.

1. Does Talashia have bad blood with her father? Does she even know where her family is? Does she care?

Yes. Bad blood. Yes. Pretend I said 'yes' another ten times or so here. She doesn't know where her dad lives now; she did go back to the old house...it took awhile since she was very young when she saw it last...but there's strangers living there now. She sort-of doesn't care where he is now, but if she found out by accident or something it would start to eat at her. She'd probably wind up looking him up in that case, eventually.

2. She was sold to a witcher, which means she could have a connection to [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION]'s or [MENTION=2820]Fenris[/MENTION]' witcher PCs. Something for you guys to discuss? Maybe the older witcher though he was doing the troubled father a favor since he was at his wits end? Or maybe there was something more nefarious about the witcher's buying the child? Up to you!

That was a big motivation for me making that change, in fact, was giving some PC hooks. The specifics of the deal made are sufficiently nebulous and in the past, and outside of Talashia's knowledge that they could be adapted to suit any dastardly GM plot needed. My default assumption is that Daddy just didn't tell this Witcher that he was buying a Bag of Crazy. Which might explain why he was so quick to sell the house and get OUT of there after the transaction. :)

3. Whether she was apprenticed at the Conclave of Mages or the Lodge of Sorceresses would have a definite impact on her relations with spell caster PCs and the story:

Apprenticing with the Conclave implies that Talashia was earnestly being trained though she might have been more than the mages could handle. During this time, she may have run across [MENTION=15132]Steve Gorak[/MENTION]'s druid PC (or any other mage PCs) during the end of his studies in Ban Ard (the sorcerer school in Kaedwen). Since Kaedwen was occupied by Redania during the Third Northern War, and Redania is the seat of the Witch Hunters, it's possible Ban Ard (or more likely a smaller offshoot) was betrayed and the Witch Hunters took it down.

Sounds plausible! I've no idea if witchers have a better relationship with the Conclave or the Lodge, but I expect a big part of the deal was expedience. It's worth noting that Talashia won't be great shakes at Arcana (she's not stupid, but she ain't wizard-smart neither), but I find it quite likely that the majority of her training was just learning some modicum of control.

Apprenticing with the Lodge implies that Talashia had a more personal relationship with a particular sorceress, and possibly was being manipulated. I would suggest Margerita Laux-Antille who specializes in curses (well, the warding of curses), since she'll come into play in the first adventure. Since Aretuza is on the Isle of Thanedd and it's very unlikely that witch hunters would manage to take it down, it's more likely a smaller group of sorceresses was betrayed.

I do like plot connections, and NPC hooks. Sounds like the Conclave may give a PC connection, which is great, and the Lodge gives her an NPC connection...also great. Win win. I'm fine with either. Perhaps we should wait to see how other backgrounds take shape to see which suits the story better?

4. Who was this traitor that Talashia sicked a mob upon? What was their motive? How did Talashia manage to stir a mob without becoming a target of their frenzy herself being an "abomination of magic"?


The traitor who betrayed her wizard/sorceress buddies (and her) to the mob of witch hunters. Who that is, precisely, I am not certain of until I detail more about those events. My sense is that one (or possibly more than one) of the resident mages wanted something that the Lodge/Conclave chapter leadership was protecting. Forbidden knowledge or whatever. So they arranged for rumors to spread, secretly cultivated some mobby leaders, and orchestrated an attack on the compound...taking advantage of the chaos to make off with whatever it was they wanted.

Talashia managed to escape by virtue of Plot Device. Now, my original idea was that she employed similar tactics to get folks angry and suspicious at this traitor...

BUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuut...

...it might be more interesting if said traitor(s) has to this point escaped justice. Giving her one of those 'motivation' thingies I've been hearing so much about lately. Seems like all the cool kids have one. And it helps pave over the rough spot you mention next...

5. Lastly, what propelled Talashia from her "time where she lost her way" into the current adventure escorting Odvara, a fellow Source, to the Posada region of Dol Blathanna to deliver her to the elves? I'm imagining something like Talashia being guided by lightning storms to Odvara's hometown in Upper Aedirn where she ends up escorting her, though we'll need a bit more to go on than that...

If she thought Dol Blathanna might have information about this traitor, that'd be one compelling reason. If she knows an old witcher/druid buddy is involved, that'd be another. The elves also know a lot of old magic that she'd be very interested in a chance to study in hopes of expanding her mastery of the Power. For immortality. And, uh! also helping people and saving kittens!

...but mostly immortality.
 

Quickleaf

Legend
[MENTION=4936]Shayuri[/MENTION]

All sounds good for Talashia so far!

Thanks for pointing out the flaws with the wild surge results. I'll be strongly editing those (and finishing the lifepath for my next update of the PDF).

I think part of the challenge in this element of game design is that the setting books & games establish that a Source's magic is barely controlled and strong stressors / negative emotion can unleash it. They are regarded as dangerous by many mages because of this. I just probably went too far in the dangerous direction with my design. So scaling the surges back but still making them meaningful/scary displays of The Power is a challenge.

Another issue you pointed out is that "emotion as a trigger" is inherently nebulous. I don't really see a way around this one, it's just something that takes DM-player cooperation/trust to find pacing that "feels right." The whole "provide 3 situations" thing I came up with just to provide SOME sort of guideline. I'm fine with that if you are. I agree that toning down the impact of the wild surges will make the lack of rules for how common surges occur less of an issue.

I'm open to ideas if you see a better way of handling the whole "barely controlled magic" trope?
 

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