A Pirates Life (Swashbuckler base class and Dread Pirate PrC)

[stonegod]

With Pirates of the Carribean in theaters and Firefly/Serenity on my mind, I'd thought I get the offical proposals going. I'd like to propose the following two classes:
- Swashbuckler (CW)
- Dread Pirate PrC (CAdv)
I would also like to propose the Windwright Captain PrC from the Explorer's Handbook, but that entire book is currently under proposal.

For those interested, here is one potential build I have considered using the above and SRD classes.

[sblock=Mal]Malfin "Mal" d'Lyrandar, CR 8
Male half-elf swashbuckler 3/bard 2/honorable dread pirate 2/windwright captain 1
CN medium humanoid (elf)
Action Points 9
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Listen +1, Spot +1
Languages Common, Elven, Ignan
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AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14; shipboard fighter
hp 66 (8 HD)
Immune sleep
Fort +4, Ref +13, Will +6 (+8 against enchantment); grace
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 keen rapier +8/+3 (1d6+6/15-20) and +1 kukri +8 (1d4+6/18-20)
Melee +1 keen rapier +10/+5 (1d6+6/15-20) or
Ranged mwk composite longbow +10 (1d8+2/x3)
Base Atk +6; Grp +8
Atk Options insightful strike, Quick Draw, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
Special Actions bardic music 2/day (inspire courage +1, fascinate 1 target, countersong)
Combat Gear 2 potions of cure serious wounds
Bard Spells Known (CL 3):
- 1st (2/day): feather fall, phantom threat (DC 12, CW), remove fear
- 0 (3/day): daze (DC 11), flare (DC 11), know direction, light, message, resistance
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 7):
- 2/day: fog cloud
- 1/day: wind's favor
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Abilities Str 15, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12
SQ bardic knowledge +5, bardic music, elven blood, dragonmark control, fearsome reputation +2 (Diplomacy), grace +1, half-elf traits, master pilot, seamanship, shipboard fighter
Feats Least Dragonmark of Storm, Lesser Dragonmark of Storm, Quick Draw, Two-Weapon Fighting (B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Skills Appraise +11, Balance +18, Climb +13, Diplomacy +10, Jump +12, Gather Information +3, Listen +1, Perform (oratory) +4, Profession (sailor) +13 (+14 piloting bound elemental vessels), Search +4, Spot +1, Swim +6, Tumble +16, Use Magic Device +7, Use Rope +7
Possessions combat possessions plus mithral shirt, +1 keen rapier, +1 kukri, mwk composite longbow (+2 Str bonus) with 40 arrows.
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Bardic Knowledge (Ex) Mal may make a bardic knowledge check with a +5 bonus to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places.
Bardic Music (various) Two times per day, Mal can use bardic music to perform a countersong, fascinate 1 target, or inspire courage. While doing so, Mal cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion, spell trigger, or command words.
- Countersong (Su) Any creature within 30 feet of Mal (including himself) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use Mal's Perform check in place of its saving throw. Any creature currently under such an effect that is not instantaneous may attempt another save using Mal's perform check. Mal may concentrate on a countersong for 10 rounds.
- Fascinate (Sp) Mal can fascinate one target with 90 feet that can see and hear him and able to pay attention; Mal must also be able to see the creature. Mal's Perform check is used at the target's Will save vs. the effect. If the creature fails the save, it is fascinated for long as Mal performs (up to 2 rounds).
- Inspire Courage (Su) Mal may add a +1 morale bonus to attack and weapon damage and a +1 morale bonus vs. saves against charm and fear for as long as he performs plus 5 rounds.
Dragonmark Control (Ex) Levels in the windwright captain class count as levels in the dragonmark heir prestige class when determining Mal's caster level for his dragonmark spell-like abilities.
Fearsome Reputation (Ex) Mal adds a +2 circumstance bonus to Diplomacy checks.
Grace (Ex) Mal adds a +1 competence bonus to Reflex saves
Insightful Strike (Ex)[/b] Mal applies his Intelligence bonus as a bonus to damage rolls with any light weapon as well as any other weapon that can be used with Weapon Finesse. Mal cannot use this ability when wearing medium or heavy armor or when carrying a medium or heavy load.
Master Pilot (Ex) Mal can add his levels of windwright captain class levels to his Profession (sailor) checks if on a bound elemental vessel.
Seamanship (Ex) Mal adds his dread pirate class levels as an insight bonus to all Profession (sailor) checks. Allies within sight or hearing of Mal add an insight bonus of half this number on their Profession (sailor) checks.
Shipboard Fighter (Ex) Mal can take 10 on Balance and Climb checks even if threatened and distracted. He also does not lose his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class when balancing or climbing. [/sblock]

 

[stonegod]

And, yes I realize that I could not play this build for a while, but I could play the lower level version as soon as other characters are open.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I wish there was some way to make the Swashbuckler class more palatable at high levels, single class. Regardless, I'm ready to vote both of these in, and I shall do so in 24 hours barring an interesting discussion starting to make some changes (or if some people think one or the other is broken or doesn't fit in Eberron). I'll be back tomorrow, but expect a yes from me after I give it some time for the community to discuss

Edit: Maybe I should wait 48 hours? I dunno.

 

[Ferrix]

To toss in my few cents, the Swashbuckler class has never really done a great job as a swashbuckling class overall. Usually cherry-picked for three levels to get Insightful Strike and then dropped for better fields because it has nothing really going for it after that.

Perhaps with some modifications to make it more swashbuckling than fighter with a few extra skill points and less choice in ability. Heck, the scout makes almost a better swashbuckler than the swashbuckler.

Drop it to a d8 HD, give it 6 sp a level, add Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Ride and Sleight of Hand to its skill list, more restricted weapon proficiencies instead of all martial (which doesn't make sense for a duelist character; simple weapons plus all light, one-handed and finessable martial weapons and the whip). Also, change good save from Fort to Refl.

Dread Pirate is definately not over powered in my opinion and I don't see a reason why it wouldn't fit well in Eberron.

 

[Rystil Arden]

To toss in my few cents, the Swashbuckler class has never really done a great job as a swashbuckling class overall. Usually cherry-picked for three levels to get Insightful Strike and then dropped for better fields because it has nothing really going for it after that.

Perhaps with some modifications to make it more swashbuckling than fighter with a few extra skill points and less choice in ability. Heck, the scout makes almost a better swashbuckler than the swashbuckler.

Drop it to a d8 HD, give it 6 sp a level, add Disguise, Intimidate, Knowledge (nobility & royalty), Ride and Sleight of Hand to its skill list, more restricted weapon proficiencies instead of all martial (which doesn't make sense for a duelist character; simple weapons plus all light, one-handed and finessable martial weapons and the whip). Also, change good save from Fort to Refl.

Dread Pirate is definately not over powered in my opinion and I don't see a reason why it wouldn't fit well in Eberron.

I agree with the analysis in your first paragraph. I'm not convinced the proposed changes would really help that much (I was thinking more in the realm of swapping around the high level special abilities), but they are definitely a good start for the discussion!

 

[stonegod]

I think the comparison should be vs. vanilla fighter, vanilla fighter w/ duelist PrC, and the Swash. That would be the good baselines.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think the comparison should be vs. vanilla fighter, vanilla fighter w/ duelist PrC, and the Swash. That would be the good baselines.

Right. Also, I know they did it to prevent cherrypicking, but the limit on the AC from the Duelist is really a terrible move (if someone proposes removing it, I'll vote YES). You already have to wait tons of levels to play a lightly armoured Fighter--now you have to wait until deep into the PrC to get your full Int bonus?!?!

By the way, the comparison with vanilla Fighter should take into account the cool new feats we're probably going to vote in

 

[Patlin]

Hey, if it means I can adventure side by side with Mal Reynolds... er, d'Lyrandar... count me in favor! (Though, of course, I'm not an LEB judge.)

 

[GwydapLlew]

I'm all for allowing both of them, but I honestly prefer the RAW. It's simpler.

 

[stonegod]

I spent some time and have done a side by side analysis of swashbuckler vs. fighter/deulist. Note, fastest path deulist is fighter 7.

Human Fighter/Duelist vs. Human Swashbuckler

Abilities: Str 15, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 10
Ability increase as follows: 4th Str, 8th Int, 12th Dex, 16th Con, 20th ?
Uses a rapier

BAB and HD are the same.

Skill Points:
- Swashbuckler gains 5+Int SP. Most likely will spend 1 skill slot on Tumble every level, leaving 4+Int skill slots free.
- F/D 3+Int until 8th, then 5+Int until 18th, then 3+Int afterwards. Must spend 1 skill slots per level until 8th on Tumble, must spend 1 skill slots per level until 4th on Perform, leaving only 1+Int skill slots free.

Damage:
- Swash does Weapon+Str damage until 3rd, then Weapon+Str+Int after. In this build, that is 1d6+2 (5 avg, 1-2), then 1d6+4 (7 avg, 3), 1d6+5 (8 avg, 4-7), 1d6+6 (9 avg, 8-20).
- Fighter does Weapon+Str until 12th, then Weapon+Str+1d6 until 17th, then Weapon+Str+2d6. In this build, that is 1d6+2 (5 avg, 1-3), 1d6+3 (6 avg, 4-11), 2d6+3 (10 avg, 12-16), 3d6+3 (13 avg, 17-20).

Feats:
- Swash gets Weapon Finesse free at 1st. Assuming they took Dodge and Mobility, that leaves only the feats at 3rd and 6th free until 8th (when Duelist is an option for our F/D combo). Swash has also gained four special abilities in this time (grace, insightful strike, dodge bonus, acrobatic charge).
- Fighter must spend first three feats on Weapon Finesse, Dodge, and Mobility. That leaves two fighter bonus feats at 4th and 6th and normal feats at 3rd and 6th open before duelist begins at 8th.

Saves:

     Swash       F/D    Note
    F  R  W    F  R  W
1   3  3  0    3  3  0
2   4  4  0    4  3  0  Swash: Grace +1
3   4  5  1    4  4  1
4   5  5  1    5  4  1
5   5  5  1    5  4  1
6   6  6  2    6  5  2
7   6  6  2    6  5  2
8   7  6  2    6  7  2  F/D: Duelist 1st 0/2/0
9   7  7  3    6  8  2
10  8  7  3    7  8  3
11  8  8  3    7 11  3  Swash: Grace +2, D: Grace +2 (armorless)
12  9 10  4    7 12  3  Dex +1
13  9 10  4    8 13  4
14 10 10  4    8 13  4
15 10 11  5    8 14  4
16 12 11  5   10 14  5  Con +1
17 12 11  5   10 15  5  F/D: Last Duelist level
18 13 12  5   11 15  5  F/D: Fighter 8th
19 13 12  5   11 16  6
20 14 13  5   12 16  6

Abilities:
- Swash favors all out attack on single foe (extra dodge bonus, improved flanking, criticals) and acrobatics (acrobatic charge early, taking 10 on Jump/Tumble)
- Duelist favors defense (mobility bonus, full defense bonus via parry, deflect arrows) and speed (improved reaction)

Discuss.