A Pirates Life (Swashbuckler base class and Dread Pirate PrC)

[Bront]

The big problem the dualist has is he's forced to go nekkid. Both have the same MADD problems.

Also, your build works better with a 16 in Int and 14 in strength to start, and then raising dex with only 1 hit to con. Sure you do a little extra damage, but wearing light armor and Weapon Finesse, you need more dex. You end up with a 14,19,14,16,10,10 that way.

Now, the dualist will be better in combat for the most part, because he has more options, BUT, he must fight one handed or loose the damage bonus. The Swashbuckler, can fight two handed with no loss in ability in any way, and still wear leather armor or a mithril chain shirt with little effects. However, he's missing out on 6 feats.

 

[stonegod]

The big problem the dualist has is he's forced to go nekkid. Both have the same MADD problems.

Can't get around the MADD---You need good Int and Dex as a clever fighter. Any combat expertise build would be similar.

Now, the dualist will be better in combat for the most part, because he has more options, BUT, he must fight one handed or loose the damage bonus. The Swashbuckler, can fight two handed with no loss in ability in any way, and still wear leather armor or a mithril chain shirt with little effects. However, he's missing out on 6 feats.

Yes, a Swash with TWF would start to even out the damage at higher levels and generally have a better AC. In addition, the Swash will have significantly more skills.

The Swash build does loose on six feats, but does gain four special abilities before the fighter picks up duelist and starts gaining abilities. Two of those the duelist gets (acrobatic charge and grace), so it is still a net loss.

The Swash does come out a little weaker, though not tremendously so in my mind. I wouldn't suggest as radical a change as Ferrix, but a small tweak (earlier abilitie? something extra?) would work in my mind.

 

[Bront]

I was always suprised the Grace abilities weren't identical to the Dualists, and thought it should be. That's minor and doesn't fix anything, but it's easy and makes it better.

Other things? I don't know, maybe give him Improved Disarm early (4th?), and later give him bonuses to use finesse weapons to disarm so that it's actualy possable (+2 at 6th, and +1 every three levels after that?). That seems somewhat swashbucklery like. Doesn't fix damage, but it gives options.

 

[stonegod]

I was always suprised the Grace abilities weren't identical to the Dualists, and thought it should be. That's minor and doesn't fix anything, but it's easy and makes it better.

Swash's is graduated (+1, +2, +3); Duelist is a fixed +2 (and only when unarmored). Problem is, because of the duelist +2 Ref at start, swash never catches up again.

 

[Bront]

Actualy, I was refering to the fact that the Dualist also get an initiative bonus out of it.

 

[stonegod]

Actualy, I was refering to the fact that the Dualist also get an initiative bonus out of it.

That's improved reaction (different ability, but one the Swash doesn't get).

 

[Bront]

Doh, you're right.

I'd probably roll that into grace as well then, or add it to grace.

Giving a bonus to Init (+1-+3), along with the disarm stuff I think would be cool and make the class fairly viable and swashbucklery, but I'm open for other sugestions.

 

[stonegod]

If I were to tweak it to keep a swashing feel, this is what I might suggest:
- Sleight of Hand as a class skill
- Since swashbucklers should have good tumbling (given the abilities which augment it), granting an extra feat like Mobility isn't strickly necissary. However, Spring Attack may make some sense. Some feats in the Combat Expertise chain would also make sense.
- As stated, a graduated init bonus may work

So how about
1 - Weapon Finesse
2 - Grace +1
3 - Insightful Strike
4 -
5 - Dodge bonus +1
6 - Improved Reaction +1
7 - Acrobatic Charge
8 - Improved Flanking
9 - Bonus Feat (Spring Attack or Improved Disarm)
10 - Dodge bonus +2
11 - Grace +2, lucky
12 - Improved Reaction +2
13 - Acrobatic skill Mastery
14 - Weakening critical
15 - Dodge bonus +3
16 -
17 - Slippery Mind
18 - Improved Reaction +3
19 - Wounding critical
20 - Dodge bonus +4, Grace +3

Thoughts?

BTW: Want to mention the class option from the PHBII. Replaces the dodge bonus. Grants +2 shield bonus if fighting with two light weapons; increases by one every time the dodge bonus would. The choice depends on the style one could choose, but I would suggest modifying it to any one-handed finessable weapon (i.e., not the spiked chain) if accepted [which may not be until any other PHBII material is in]

 

[Rystil Arden]

Keep in mind that you haven't factored items into the mix. I believe the Duelist looks even better with items to buff him up. Also, the Duelist isn't exactly the most wonderful PrC in the world either.

Here's a Swashbuckler class I made up (it's supposed to be balanced with gestalt classes, so I know it's too strong, but it gives an idea of an interesting Swashbuckler). Maybe if it lost one step of HD, 2 SP per level, one of the good saves, and all the bonus feats it could be balanced, but I'm unsure of that.

[SBLOCK=Swash]BAB Fort Ref Will Special
+1 +2 +2 +0 Bonus Feat, Canny Defense
+2 +3 +3 +0 Bonus Feat, Evasion
+3 +3 +3 +1 Precise Strike +1d6, Insightful Strike
+4 +4 +4 +1 Bonus Feat
+5 +4 +4 +1 Uncanny Dodge
+6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Bonus Feat
+7/+2 +5 +5 +2 PS +2d6
+8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Bonus Feat
+9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Improved Uncanny Dodge
+10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Bonus Feat, Improved Evasion
+11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 PS +3d6
+12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Bonus Feat
+13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Defensive Roll, Acrobatic Skill Mastery
+14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Bonus Feat
+15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 PS +4d6
+16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +10 +5 Bonus Feat
+17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Opportunist
+18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Bonus Feat
+19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 PS +5d6
+20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Bonus Feat, Inimical Critical

Hit Dice: d10

Skills: 6+Int modifier, use the Fighter and Rogue skill lists[/SBLOCK]

 

[Ferrix]

My opinion of the swashbuckler has sort of already been said, but I find that the ranger is in many ways a better lightly-armored fighter type than the swashbuckler since he gains more skill points and a bit more progressional combat affects.

Thus, putting the swashbuckler more on par with the ranger base wise (HD, skills, saves) would to me make a very good starting point, and then spread out some interesting abilities.