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Pathfinder 1E airwalkrr's Rise of the Runelords AE PBP Reborn! [OOC]

Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
That all looks good to me, airwalkrr!

The only suggestion I have is regarding knowledge checks. Since all of the knowledge is assumed to be there in the characters' heads, searching for it isn't really like finding the right folder on a computer. So in my games, I don't require the players to specify which knowledge skill they're using or roll separately for whichever skill might apply - they just make a single d20 roll, and I apply the appropriate bonus from their sheet (or from their stat block, if they've got it detailed there). This seems to speed things along a little.
 

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airwalkrr

Adventurer
(Lots of math.)
Thanks for that detailed analysis, perrinmiller. That's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I find a few flaws with it though, mostly not in the math, but in the assumptions. First of all, you assume that 1st-level is probably where the impact will be felt the most. I happen to disagree. I've been playing in a RotR campaign for several months now with a GM who runs things 99% from the book. 1st-level all the way through 8th-level we've encountered some battles where no one was hitting on a reliable basis. When we were, we were hitting hard, but it wasn't very productive sometimes for 2-3 rounds in a row. We had similar issues in 3.5 when running the Shackled City AP, Age of Worms AP, and Savage Tide AP (two of those with me as GM). It usually isn't until levels 13+ when to-hit starts becoming a non-issue. With my slight modification of the Armor as DR, even a non-damaging hit is converted to 1 nonlethal, which is still progress in the majority of situations. Our experiences are clearly different though, so your point remains partially valid.

You also made a flaw in your calculations. The average damage from a shortbow hitting a goblin is actually: (1 nonlethal + 1 nonlethal + 1 lethal + 2 lethal + 3 lethal + 4 lethal) / 6 = 2 (given the assumption that a monster does not heal). Also, the factor of critical hits becomes a more substantial contribution to average damage as AC goes down (although the math in this situation is different because crits follow different rules so that might not actually be the case; I'd have to modify the spreadsheet I made for calculating average damage that I use to determine when it is optimal to use things like Power Attack and smites). The math isn't as simple as (avg. die roll - DR) for monsters capable of taking nonlethal damage.
I am wondering why we need a different rule variant for magical attacks. If we need the GM to provide meta-information on Saving Throws to self resolve magical spells anyway, then why not just allow players to roll the saving throw for the GM in that case?
I have no objection to that. Do players object to me rolling their saves during monster turns in the interest of speeding up game play? (Exceptions could be made for saving throws versus death or debilitating effects like feeblemind). This does shift the dynamic of Hero Points more towards offensive use, though you could still use them for the +4 or reroll when your turn comes up to reverse the outcome. (Imagine the movie where The Hero is battling The Villain in the final fight and The Villain strikes what appears to be a telling blow. The Hero collapses to the ground, appearing out for the count; The Villain has won and begins to cackle maniacally as lightning crackles above. But then The Hero lifts his arm and plants his fist in the mud (it's raining you see), draws himself up, and The Villain turns around just in time to be cut down with a mighty blow from The Hero's sword. This could be a dramatic example of The Hero using a Hero Point to reverse an apparent outcome.)
Kinem switched to wizard, so we have plenty of arcane support but we are now slightly weaker on melee strength. ;)
Good point.
That all looks good to me, airwalkrr!

The only suggestion I have is regarding knowledge checks. Since all of the knowledge is assumed to be there in the characters' heads, searching for it isn't really like finding the right folder on a computer. So in my games, I don't require the players to specify which knowledge skill they're using or roll separately for whichever skill might apply - they just make a single d20 roll, and I apply the appropriate bonus from their sheet (or from their stat block, if they've got it detailed there). This seems to speed things along a little.
Meh, that's more work on my part, and GMs have enough work. I don't see why expecting a character trained in a specific Knowledge skill wouldn't be able to recognize an undead type or a magical beast type and recall the basic characteristics of type at the very least. I get the sense I don't fully grasp your point though.
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
FYI, we're almost good to go. [MENTION=11456]Tailspinner[/MENTION], go ahead and put your character sheet up on the RG. I'm not going to proofread them as I'm busy prepping for the campaign. Players are expected to self-police (it's the same policy I use in tabletop). If you want to help each other, feel free to proofread each other for any bonuses missed, etc. I will read backgrounds and descriptions though and make any notes I deem necessary.

At this present moment I intend to use Armor as Damage Reduction as written (with the minimum damage being 1 nonlethal for damage negated by DR/armor alone) and see where it takes us. While perrinmiller has raised some good points, I still feel it is worth a try. We can evaluate it in real time during combat. We should be ready to go within a week, possibly sooner. [MENTION=30016]SelcSilverhand[/MENTION] and [MENTION=49929]Scott DeWar[/MENTION], as noted, you are welcome to participate in the roleplaying as alternate characters who happen to be following up on the same leads and such so that you may keep up with the game, but only if you would like to; it's not required.
 

Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
Do players object to me rolling their saves during monster turns in the interest of speeding up game play? (Exceptions could be made for saving throws versus death or debilitating effects like feeblemind).

Not at all!

Meh, that's more work on my part, and GMs have enough work. I don't see why expecting a character trained in a specific Knowledge skill wouldn't be able to recognize an undead type or a magical beast type and recall the basic characteristics of type at the very least. I get the sense I don't fully grasp your point though.

It is a little more work, but you're right - my point was more just about the absence of need for the players to know which type of knowledge to roll. (Sometimes that matters - if I as a player don't know what I'm rolling knowledge for, I may not know what type to roll). But it's really no big deal to me either way; just a thought I had while I was reading your post :).


BTW, just noticed that since I chose a nationality/subrace HeroLab automatically gave me Keleshite as a language. It seems logical to me that he'd have that since he grew up there, but if you'd like for me to take it off I will. I can't imagine that it'll make any mechanical difference so it's just for flavor at this point anyway.
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
Thoughts . . . .

Armor as DR
As I have mentioned in the agreement to Perrinmiller, the upper level effects of this alt rule is of precarious balance. Also, it was mentioned by Perrinmiller that the DR effect would possibly prolong a battle as it would reduce our effectiveness against the opponent.


PRATD
I know this works well on a table-top game. we use this rule in the game in Columbia, Missouri (which I miss immensely), I just don't know how well it would work here in pbp. We are all heavy posters and very attentive. That should make a big plus. I just don't know.


Meta
This, in moderation, would speed up the story telling as it would allow for a character post to include the results of the player's roll. I would have to say that the giving of saves might be too much. That would mean you, as gm, would have to present a stat block on each opponent given. I think that is expecting too much from you as gm. I would have to say that saves might have to be with held. Also knowledge rolls can be done with flexibility. sometimes something needs to be kept secret and thus looked by the gm, and rolled by the gm. other times a cascading spoiler block on a knowledge roll would suffice quite well.


RG
playing with out playing. Interesting. good for the storyline. Never tried that before.
alchemist beastmorpher as semi melee. . . remember that he has a bestial - heavy hitter - side to him

forewarning:
I have recently gone back to post with two hands. after the coma I had debilitatingly limited use of my left arm and hand. I am essentially relearning how to type with my left hand. It is going well, just slow as I have to double check for errors even over what I normally check for. My left hand is still numb and still twitches a bit more then I would like to be doing.
 

airwalkrr

Adventurer
Your concerns have been noted, [MENTION=49929]Scott DeWar[/MENTION]. There are certainly things I will keep an eye on based on player feedback. Let me also express my sympathy and empathy for your situation. I know what it is like having to nurse an injured limb back to health. I underwent a year-long recovery for my left knee after my auto-accident.

[MENTION=11456]Tailspinner[/MENTION], please post your character to the RG. It looks good to go.

I'll have some notes on character backgrounds soon.
 

Scott DeWar

Prof. Emeritus-Supernatural Events/Countermeasure
Nuh-uh. No sympathy, please. Just encouragement and correction. Let me know when I get sloppy in my typing! I will work on my character more tomorrow. We are having some weather issues here In middle Tennessee, what we in the microwave communications called atmospheric thermocline ducting. A difference in air mass temperatures can cause a satellite signal to get refracted like air in a duct work with in a building. I don't know the physics on this, but I know that I may need to try and post this a couple of times to get it to work.
 

kinem

Adventurer
Do players object to me rolling their saves during monster turns in the interest of speeding up game play? (Exceptions could be made for saving throws versus death or debilitating effects like feeblemind). This does shift the dynamic of Hero Points more towards offensive use, though you could still use them for the +4 or reroll when your turn comes up to reverse the outcome.

I'm fine with it. When I DM PBP I usually roll for PC saves to save time, though I sometimes worry that players could feel cheated by it. Hero points does complicate it though.
 

perrinmiller

Adventurer
airwalkrr said:
I've been playing in a RotR campaign for several months now with a GM who runs things 99% from the book. 1st-level all the way through 8th-level we've encountered some battles where no one was hitting on a reliable basis. When we were, we were hitting hard, but it wasn't very productive sometimes for 2-3 rounds in a row.
What was the main factor causing things to drag out in those combats for RotRL?

That might not have been an issue that would have been solved with Armor as DR. Because all of my experience with those prolonged battles with both sides being ineffective are directly contributed to DR and characters being unprepared to deal with it.

Since the discussion is to be able time saving, have you considered how the variant is going to impact our RL time spent updating during combat?

The added complications and meta-information that has to be tracked and provided during combat is going to take up more time RL for everyone. Where a simple AC is easy to write, you now have to start providing DR information as well for us to self-resolve. All of the extra time (even if it is only 1-2 minutes) per update adds up and could make the difference whether a game gets updated or not on certain days. Typically games that are harder to update, get updated less often.

To be honest, I am not all that bothered if a rare combat takes a little longer because things are not too easy. But, if we are definitely sticking with Armor as DR, then I need to rework my bard to accommodate the variant since the tactics I was designing around would be different.
 

Maidhc O Casain

Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
Most of the time I'm honestly not bothered at all by the pace of a PbP game as long as the updates and posting rate are regular. It's gonna be slow, and no experiment or alternate rules in which I've ever been involved (other than stripping down almost all of the rules and making the game purely narative) has made enough of a difference to make them worth the effort if speeding play is the only reason for the change. I long ago adjusted my expectations to accommodate the inevitable.

If a change is being made to change the feel of the game or that intangible experience of gameplay, I say go for it. I like trying new things, and for me hands on experience beats intellectual analysis hands down. That may be, of course, because I'm really not that good at intellectual analysis :D.

Where I start losing interest is when a game starts going a week or more between posts. For my money, a combat - or any other scene - can go on for weeks so long as it's actually going on.
 

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