best archer build

[Chun-tzu]

True Strike does not a domain break. Neither does haste, since everyone just buys Boots of Speed ("haste boots") anyway...

True strike isn't any good for archer types anyway. The attack bonuses are pretty high all the same, and the spell wastes an action. It's more useful shooting two arrows than one with true strike. Look it like this: isn't there any spell that is more useful than the one that makes your next arrow hit? Like Divine Power, Divine Favor.. even Flame Strike at higher levels..

I never said the Time domain was broken, just that it was arguably the best domain choice for a cleric archer. True Strike is a great spell for an archer. It's just not a spell that would be used in every battle. It's the spell you want when you're making that "can't miss" shot. It's the spell you'd use when you've got an Arrow of Slaying or other special arrow that you really don't want to waste. It's the spell that gives you a fighting chance at making an impossible shot.

Haste is also the "must have" 3rd-level spell (until it gets nerfed in the revised edition). No way do Boots of Speed negate its usefulness. The boots can only be used for 10 rounds a day. For many campaigns, that's not enough to have your bases covered. Is there another 3rd level spell more useful? Perhaps, but I bet you'd get a lot of gamers choosing Haste as their #1 spell of choice.

Most elven cleric archer buils I've seen have chosen Labelas Enoreth over the arguably more conceptually appropriate choices of Solonar Thelandira, Shevarash, or Corellon Larethian for one reason only: because Time was the must-have domain.

 

[Numion]

I never said the Time domain was broken, just that it was arguably the best domain choice for a cleric archer. True Strike is a great spell for an archer. It's just not a spell that would be used in every battle. It's the spell you want when you're making that "can't miss" shot. It's the spell you'd use when you've got an Arrow of Slaying or other special arrow that you really don't want to waste. It's the spell that gives you a fighting chance at making an impossible shot.

Time is very strong, yes. I've kept True Strike prepared for the last 10 levels on my archer cleric. I've used it about twice, at lower levels. My to-hit bonuses are the best in the group with GMWs, Divine Favors and Empowered Cat's Graces so it's game over anyway if I needed a true strike to hit. At lower levels it is more useful, I'll grant you that.

Haste is also the "must have" 3rd-level spell (until it gets nerfed in the revised edition). No way do Boots of Speed negate its usefulness. The boots can only be used for 10 rounds a day. For many campaigns, that's not enough to have your bases covered. Is there another 3rd level spell more useful? Perhaps, but I bet you'd get a lot of gamers choosing Haste as their #1 spell of choice.

Yes, haste is good, even the nerfed one for Archer-Clerics. Haste the spell is useful, but boots of speed don't have to be used in one fight. They're good for about three fights on the average, if encountering challenges of CR equal to your level. Haste the spell is gone in one fight. Still useful, but choosing a domain just for that? I chose War over Time for the Power Words and the weapon focus feat.

And of course you can buy a second pair of boots of speed for the bargain price of, what, 8000 gp. Surely worth it. Or a friggin Hat of Speed.

Most elven cleric archer buils I've seen have chosen Labelas Enoreth over the arguably more conceptually appropriate choices of Solonar Thelandira, Shevarash, or Corellon Larethian for one reason only: because Time was the must-have domain.

Time domain is not must-have. Only way the haste spells are more useful than boots is if you quicken the haste spell to 7th level domain to start the encounters with a kick.

Don't get me wrong; time is very good. I'm not just sure it notably differs in power from the War&Elf domain build. Time Stop for clerics sure is good, though..

 

[Chun-tzu]

I'm not just sure it notably differs in power from the War&Elf domain build.

War? Huh! Good God, y'all, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

Just kidding. Between War and Time, it's an easy choice for me, but I can see other people taking War instead.

 

[Numion]

War? Huh! Good God, y'all, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

Just kidding. Between War and Time, it's an easy choice for me, but I can see other people taking War instead.

It's the weapon focus feat, though now I'm not even sure if thats needed. The attack bonuses blow up anyway at later levels. So I might have to concede you a point. ...I thought Improved Critical needed Focus as prequisite, but it doesn't. Time is clearly better, then. You win

God damn why I didn't think of this through.. I would've wanted Time Stop at level 17. That would've rocked.

(someone should calculate just how useful that imp. critical even is .. clerics have so few feats that each one counts!)

My choises for feats (I'm level 10 straight cleric):

1: Weapon Focus, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
3: Precise Shot
6: Empower Spell
9: Quicken Spell

Persistent spell isn't used in our game, so I took quicken as substitute: Quickened Divine favor if no time to boost before combat. Or Divine Power at 15th level. Not too impressive, IMO.

Empower spell is very useful for empowering cat's grace, endurance and whatnot. I don't have to buy permanent items.

Any ideas, improvements? Far Shot isn't useful since we mostly fight in buildings and dungeons, where I maneuver inside 30ft of the enemy, of course.

Extend spell is an option, but we usually have to go resting anyway much before my important 10min / level spells (Death Ward, Protection from Elements x 3, Freedom of Movement, Spell Immunity for example) end, so I've had minimal trouble with spells running out.

 

[Korak]

Tournament Legal Build

Well, as an alternative to all the archer builds around here that are based on the house rule that weapon proficiency and focus for longbows equate to proficiency and focus with composite longbows. I wanted to list my Living Greyhawk archer's build. Granted, I think that house rule is quite reasonable as the two weapons are nearly identical, only really differing in their construction and strength of pull. The mechanics are the same. This build requires only core books + masters of the wild + defenders of the faith.

This build is designed around the idea that you will be partied with GMW capable clerics for maximum efficiency, but still viable when not with such characters (most of my LG tables are with 2 clerics, so plenty of GMW casts). This character also incorporates some Holy Liberator levels to round out the saves and eventually get a celestial horse mount. Mounted archery (not the feat) is very, very good. Taking a full move and all your shots at no penalty, with your shots assumed to happen at the middle of your move, is so good. You can also be in melee with your horse and also shoot with no AOOs as long as your opponent doesn't have reach (since you take up the back square of the horse model). With a good dex and a rank or two of ride, the DC10 check to attack after your mount attacks is trivial. You can also tap the DC5 guide with knees roll by dex alone once you pick up a +2dex item.

So, on to the build.

Stats (28pt build)
Str 14
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 8

Human

Barbarian1/Fighter1/Barbarian2/Ranger1/Fighter2/DeepwoodSniper1/Monk1/HolyLiberator1,2. That is the first 9 levels. Taking Holy Liberator on through 5 levels to get the celestial horse mount is the goal, from there, there are several viable paths, all of which include at least one more level of DS. The monk level is rather cheesy, but it makes diplomacy a class skill to speed you on into HL one level earlier, grants evasion, allows you to threaten even with your bow out, makes tumble a class skill, and gives great saves. If the monk level is too much cheese for your taste, you can substitute a level of rogue for somewhat lesser benfits. The barbarian levels allow one rage per day to get more damage from the bow shots, faster movement, decent skill points, uncanny dodge, and big hp at first level. The ranger level allows the use of cure light wands, which I feel are essential in the tournament format (you never know who you will be playing with at conventions).

Feats are as follows:
Lvl1 - Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot
Lvl2 - Precise Shot
Lvl3 - Weapon Focus (Comp LB)
Lvl4 - Track, Ambidexterity*, Two-weapon fighting*
Lvl5 - Far Shot
Lvl6 - Iron Will
Lvl7 - Improved Unarmed Strike*
Lvl9 - Improved Critical (Comp LB)

Stat increases go into con at 4 and 8. HP are very important in tournament style campaigns.

My character so far is about to crack level 8. I have a +1 Mighty+4 MW Composite LB, +1 Mithril Chain Shirt, +1 Ring of Protection, +1 Greatsword, Eyes of the Eagle, HHH, Gloves of Dex +2, Cloak of Resistance +1, and 2 pearls of power(1).

You may have more or less wealth than this in a home campaign, but I get by. Bracers of Archery would be great, but they are not available to me in the campaign, although one of my regular clerics sometimes lets me wear his during games. At level 8, with no buffs, my close range attacks are at +14/+14/+9 for 1d8+4, +13/+13/+8 for 1d8+3 at 35' to 175' (Farshot+DS). I ride a heavy warhorse when outdoors, so I can move 40 (he is at medium encumberance) and still get off all 3 shots at no additional penalty. When I get my bow enchanted and arrows enchanted with +4 each (thanks bead of kharma) my attacks become +21/+21/+16 for 1d8+11 at close, and you can compute 35'-175' from that. Given the fantastic damage output from that, I never have trouble talking GMW out of the clerics I play with.

My saves are F:17 R:9 W:7 at level 8, at level 9 they will be F:18 R:9 W:8 assuming no additional items.

At level 9 I will have x3 crits on 18-20. With a second level of DS, that increases to x4 crits (probably level 11). Level 10 (HL3) brings immunity to charm and compulsion. If you spend your skill points carefully, you can qualify for contemplative at around level 14-15. Using that to pick up the celerity domain (or perhaps luck/or travel), while increasing your HL caster level, is a decent option. The thing to remember though is that even taking HL all the way up, you will top out at level 4 spells (assuming you get a +4 wisdom item or allocate the level 12 and 16 stat bumps to wis and get a +2 item), so granted powers are likely more important than domain spells.

As for other items, a bow with elemental damage is a great item to get, but I don't have access to one, unfortunately. Ditto for boots of speed.

There are better pure archer builds. However, I love the sturdiness and versatility of this character in the tournament format. I have good damage output alone and superior damage output when buffed, am very mobile, have a good spot mod, plenty of hp, great saves, and limited self healing ability.

Well, that ended up being a bit longer than I expected. I hope you find it useful.

<edit> wow, thanks everyone for not mentioning my colossal brain fart in listing my damage with d6's instead of d8s... corrected now<edit>

 

[Darklone]

There was a FAQ where the sage said that shooting from the back of your horse at someone in front of you will give him cover from your horse... Ever shot your horse ?

 

[Ysgarran]

Re: Tournament Legal Build

Barbarian1/Fighter1/Barbarian2/Ranger1/Fighter2/DeepwoodSniper1/Monk1/HolyLiberator1,2. That is the first 9 levels. Taking Holy Liberator on through 5 levels to get the celestial horse mount is the goal, from there, there are several viable paths,

Definately a problem for most campaigns. RPGA Living Greyhawk does not make you pay for breaking the spirit of the rules.

You start off as non-lawfull (Barbarian), switch to a Lawfull alignment and then switch to Chaotic Good (requirement for Holy Liberator).

 

[Chun-tzu]

I doubt that I'd have noticed Time as being better than War, if not for the numerous times I saw it in these Cleric Archer threads! But when you begin to see it over and over, you figure out there must be something there.

Looks like you built your Cleric pretty well, Numion. As for feat suggestions, here are a couple:

Extend Spell is nice, but you said that it's never really been that big a problem. It's really best for those long-term spells, like the 2nd-level buff spells. Your 10th level cleric could boost his attributes for 20 hours instead of 10.

Reach Spell is not bad for an archer cleric, because you can heal your allies from a distance. But it's pretty expensive (+2 levels), so arguably not worth it. Long distance Harm is powerful (but will and should be nerfed once Harm is revised).

Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand are useful. Scribe Scroll is good for having emergency back-up spells available, like a Neutralize Poison or an extra Greater Magic Weapon before a big battle day. Craft Wand is good if there are others in your party who can use a Cure Light Wounds wand, which is pretty cheap for a high level party, but still effective for post-battle healing.

Divine Might is a good feat, depending on what your Cha is (it's great for Paladins). It requires Extra Turning as a prereq, though.

Improved Rapid Shot is from an issue of Dragon, and is totally broken. Rapid Shot is already too good.

Leadership is always a good choice, if your DM allows it.

Do you run into Spell Resistance often? Spell Penetration is always a good choice for high-level Wizards and Sorcerers, and might be worth it for your Cleric.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Not so. There are several ways to do it in a non FR setting.

Greyhawk has Phaulkon (see LGG) for a non-elven god with the war domain and longbow as a favored weapon.

If you wanted to do a human cleric archer, you'd pick cleric of Phaulkon and probably war and animal domains:

1. PBS, Precise Shot
3. Rapid Shot
6. Extend Spell
9. Persistent Spell

If you're avoiding persistent spell because it's cheesy, you can take Zen Archery (S&F) to allow you to use wisdom instead of dex for your attack bonus. Quite handy for a cleric who needs a good wisdom but doesn't need dex for anything.

Exactly, and this is an important thing to note: This build can only be done in the Forgotten Realms setting.

The only gods that offer the bow as a preferred weapon and have the War domain are the Elven gods.

If you don't want to use someone else's build (the reason I dropped the Cleric archer idea in my latest game), just go with Fighter (or Fighter/Ranger -- sneak & spot skills) levels, and pick either the Order of the Bow Initiate (Sword and Fist) or the Deepwood Sniper (Masters of the Wild) PrC. Or pick both.

 

[Korak]

Alignment Issues

Definately a problem for most campaigns. RPGA Living Greyhawk does not make you pay for breaking the spirit of the rules. You start off as non-lawfull (Barbarian), switch to a Lawfull alignment and then switch to Chaotic Good (requirement for Holy Liberator).

Well, that is why I included this sentence,

If the monk level is too much cheese for your taste, you can substitute a level of rogue for somewhat lesser benfits.

The cheese in question was the change in alignment required. Another option is to push the Holy Liberator back 2 levels and take 2 more fighter levels for Weapon Spec. Despite the role-playing stretch, I decided that evasion and getting into HL one level sooner was more worthwhile.

That being said, I started chaotic good, and have consistently role-played a self-sacrificing good character. My respect for authority has vaired. It grew through my early levels by the influence of a lawful good character that I frequently adventure with, who is a higher ranking militia member. I became lawful for a short time (during which I gave up the ability to rage), but then through a situation in which adherance to the law produced a consequence that simply was unnacceptable to the good nature in my character, I had to forsake lawfulness and embrace my chaotic roots. I cannot describe this situation as it involves scenario specific info. However, at that point, I forever gave up the ability to gain further monk levels. The combination of classes in my build is cheesy. However, I did my best to role-play it; freely giving alms to the poor and risking death to save innocents (as any not so wise and devotedly good character should do).

One other thing to address...

There was a FAQ where the sage said that shooting from the back of your horse at someone in front of you will give him cover from your horse... Ever shot your horse ?

I saw that not too long ago. With my hit mods and the rarity that I am actually shooting at something in melee with my horse, it hasn't been an issue to this point.