Broken spells?: entangle and briar web (DotF)

[Rel]

All you need to do is throw some Flying creatures at them. Cant Entangle them and there wouls be meny types of flying creatures in the wilds.

The spell description mentions that trees also get into the action. Entangle is a radius effect spell and I would therefore assume that at the center of the area of effect, the effects would extend to a height of 40 feet off the ground.

The spell doesn't say anything about providing additional obscurement for any of the targets within the area of effect. I use the normal obscurement rules for whatever the terrain happens to be.

I will agree with any who contend that this is among the most powerful of first level spells. But the fact that it is useless in a dungeon (in most cases anyway) makes it balanced with other spells of the same level. In short, I totally agree with Hypersmurf: Outside, Druids rock!

 

[purple knight]

Just fair warning, if you think it is difficult dealing with the druid now, wait till he gets higher levels. Once he gets the Spike spells, and the Mark and Greater Mark spells, which all last an hour per level, your really going to have your hands full.

The druid in our campaign is 10th level, so his spells last pretty much the whole day of activity. He casts spikes on his staff (+2 to hit, +10 to damage), Greater Mark of earth (+2 ST or Con, I don't remember which, but more importantly DR +1/10), Greater Mark of Air (+2 Dex, all day Fly spell), and Mark of Water (+2 to St or CON (as above) and the ability to breath under water). Additionally, the marks can be "triggered" to fire off a high damaging magical attack at will (ending that mark, but what the hay?)

Additionally you will have flame strikes, shape changing, and a slew of animal companions to deal with.

Posts complaining that the druid is underbalanced leave me laughing for hours.

 

[vox]

Good but not too good

I agree that Entangle is very effective in the right situation but I don't think it's too powerful, given it's limited application. Not only are there lots of places it won't work but there are lots of creatures it won't work well on--incorporeal, oozy or the very common big-strong-guy. Yeah, it's great against a bunch of hobgoblins coming at you from one direction but then so is sleep--and you can kill the sleepers easily, where as entangled foes are more difficult to walk up to and chop up.

If you are in a low magic campaign lots of spells are going to seem extra effective just because there aren't a lot of countermagics available. But that's just the way a low magic campaign is--spell casters are more powerful in such campaigns because people are less prepared for them.

An intelligent, recurring foe will have plenty of options to get around entangle, even w/o much magic. If someone gets whammied by entangle then the next time they weill have their agents shoot/assasinate the druid, surround the party, lure them to/ambush them in town or a dungeon, have hidden archers hold their actions till the druid starts casting then shoot to disrupt the spell, use agents w/a good escape artist skill, etc. If they have a little magic then levitate, silence, freedom of movement, bull's strength, etc will work.

So, yeah it's handy, but it's not all that.

 

[reapersaurus]

Just fair warning, if you think it is difficult dealing with the druid now, wait till he gets higher levels. Once he gets the Spike spells, and the Mark and Greater Mark spells, which all last an hour per level, your really going to have your hands full.

That's why you shouldn't willy-nilly include stuff from the Book of Eldritch Might into a campaign without looking very carefully first.

The Mark spells are the ones I mentioned as being a bad idea in the BoEM thread.... coincidentally enuff.

 

[Thornhammer]

I thought the two things about entangle that were out of preportion were the save DC 20! and that it was 1 MINUTE/ lvl. Both of thoughs should be much less for a 1st lvl spell.

I would change it to DC depending on the undergrowth starting at 11 and ending with like 18. Then I would change the duration to 2 rd/lvl

The duration is my primary gripe. It lasts way too long for a 1st level spell. If the duration is shortened (to maybe say 1 round per level) then the save DC is just fine. 10 rounds is longer than many of my combats anyway.

Another way to take the fire out of Entangle is to enforce Precision Spellcasting rules! DMs, how many times have you heard this: (Situation: PCs are ready to fight a bunch of orcs that will be one square away in very short order.)

"Well, if I cast Entangle on this square, we'll be just outside the radius. All the bad guys will be caught. We'll back off and pepper 'em with arrows or something." Replace Entangle with Fireball or any other area effect spell of your choice.

So...in six seconds, in the middle of combat, you're going to be able to pick out that exact spot and cast the spell. Riiiight. Solution: Spellcraft check. And deviation (within limits!) if the check fails.

-Thornhammer

 

[nharwell]

I don't really understand the concern with Entangle. In my experience, players are rarely about to use this spell effectively because they risk catching the party within the effect. Only under certain conditions (ambush, etc.) has it worked well.